Edge's Handi Rifle Project

Thread a factory 45/70 to take the breachplug? Thats interesting, get the depth of the breachplug right for a good primer strike and that part should be OK if there was enough metal left around the plug, would the chamber area be a problem? I mean would the powder take up the chamber and throat area so that the bullet or sabot would still be in the rifling?

Asooo grasshopper,,, sure that would not be legel in NC though as It can be converted to a 45/70, would have to be a breachpoug that screwed in.

Edge, If you go to NEF or H&R web page you can get a pretty good look at this new rifle. I'm not sure but I think the barrel will be heavier than the one that you used. Thanks for all your input.

The Game Wardens here in NC tend to pounce and then look for details. and ohhhh do they stress the details, If it were pinned in then it would be ok I'm betting. Very interesting concept though,,,, putting a breach plug in that heavy barrel sounds real neat. But I'm all for lighter barrels.

Yes a short screw in pin would be fairly easy to position in the ejector indent of a rimless case if that indent was mechined into your plug, or ya could leave the plug streight sided and put a channel through the same area on one side for a drive in pin or a longer set screw to go across the side of the plug. A pin or plug could recieve some hard pressures though.

Thats true it would simply be there to satisfy the law, not sure if it would in NC though as long as that barrel could still be used for regular 45/70 ammo after the plug was removed.

I don't want to upset any rabbit sheriffs so I'll let you guys figure that one out. I'm going to make a threaded plug for mine. If its a total loss then NEF will put another barrel on for around $150.00. Its still cheaper than the $600.00 I was about to spend on hand lapped shilen barrel. I checked on the price for one of these and it would run about $360.00. I'll do the hand lapping myself if needed. Edge what about a 9/16" OD breech plug? Would that be enough since the 45/70 case is around 1/2"?

arrestman, 9/16 will be fine depending on what length you make it and what material you use.

A 9/16 diameter cartridge will need to hold back against about 12,000 pounds of force assuming a 50,000 psi load.

PPosey, the breechplug is Ampco bronze and if you look closely you will see that the "Module" is the base of a 45-70 cartridge cut down and bored to accept a 209 primer.

When I open the action the module is removed automatically. It is very nice to have a nice big module while hunting. You can prime and deprime using gloves easily without fiddling with just a 209 primer

edge.

I may make a new breechplug that uses a 223 cartridge/ 25 acp or something. But then I need to modify my extractor...we shall see when I get the time....

I forgot to address this earlier.

Handirifle barrels have VERY shallow rifling! It is only about 0.003 deep so I would be slow to lap these. You will also find that they are tighter at the breech than the muzzle .

IMO, with some fiddling with loads they can be very accurate...but you WILL want to work on the trigger. Graybeards has some very good tips on trigger work and someday I will fix mine

edge.

slufoot, unless you have tried the sabots, I would not give up.

When I bought my Krieger barrel I assumed that I could not shoot regular sabots either. My barrel is .495/.505, but it is lapped. It shoots 250 grain bullets very fast with regular short MMP sabots.

I suspect that the crush rib sabots will probably work, but don't know for sure.

I have not shot enough sabotless to say what is the best size. I tend to think that making a small bullet and then knurling to fit seems to work. Remember that Handi barrels tend to be tight at the breech and looser at the muzzle. This would tend to make tight bullets that load OK at the muzzle very hard to fully seat.

edge.

Edge, I like your handi-rifle project enough that I ordered a new ss ultra hunter thumbhole. I've been laid off at work for medical reasons so I don't have the availability of the machines. But I have a little time to shoot. Would you be willing to sell one of your b/p and say 6 modules for the 45 70? I would then have something to use while the savage barrel cooled. I could then see how I like a 45 before I get into either a ruger #1 or a better longer barrel for the handi-rifle. Thanks for any input. Jon

Jon, I wish that I could say yes to all of the requests that I receive, but I am not in the modification business.
The next few months are our busiest time of the year and we run 2 shifts and Saturday overtime just to keep up. I can't even get on a machine to make things for my own rifles let alone for others.
A couple of weeks ago I agreed to thread some 4140 for someone to make their own breecgplugs and I still have not been able to do that simple task!

The Handi conversion is not quite as simple using my breechplug as I may have first let on. It can't be a mix and match as it must be headspaced for the individual rifle.

I have another design that eliminates this need, but I am back to not having a machine to make it on. I may try an alternative quick fix, but not right away.

If you want to test muzzleloading with the Handi, then cut a dowel and place it in the chamber. load the bullet till it hits the dowel. Remove the dowel and load a cartridge without a bullet, but with a fiber wad. You will need a powder that fill the case completely.

The handi rifle 45-70 has a VERY short throat, only about 0.100 so the base of the bullet will be hanging out by this distance.

edge.

A couple of weeks ago I was at the range and the guy next to me was shooting a .223
He had some weird brass that was mainly plastic and the only real brass was the base section. Since he was throwing it away I took a few home. As I sat at my desk at work I thought that the base might make for a primer module for my 45-70 project.

I don't have a lathe right now since the shop is too busy so I decided to modify a regular 45-70 case to accept these .223 case heads.

What I came up with was to solder a copper plug in the base of the cartridge case. Then drill it and mill the end for the module. Drill for a vent bushing.





The black marker on the 45-70 case will be milled away so that I can add an ejector for just the .223 module as the 45-70 case will remain in the chamber.
If I ever finish this with the ejector, any game warden would see the ejector bar behind the breechplug case. At that point the breechplug could not be removed without removing the ejector.

edge.

Hey edge, I tried my 45-70 Handi barrel with a .452 Hornady 300 grain XTP bullet and it started down the muzzle and just as you stated it got tight about 2" before dropping through the chamber. I had a piece of brass rod that I cut to the same length length as a 45-70 case and dropped it down the barrel. I used 62 grains of H-4895, this is a Trapdoor load from Hodgdon, and then I put a 50 caliber roundball patch (this was all I had for a wad) down on top of the powder just to hold it in place, I used my short starter to get the patch in the case mouth.
I setup my 45-70 Handi-Rifle in a "Scout style" configuration. It has a peep sight with a large aperature and a white post front sight and I mounted a 2x Leupold extended eye relief scope about half way down the barrel. This makes a great woods hunting rifle but isn't very good for bench work. Now that you know a little about my setup maybe you can understand why I was happy with my results.
I setup a target at 50 yards and then dropped the case length rod down the barrel, inserted a Hornady 300 XTP and seated it against the rod (it gets tight just before contacting the rod). I made a mark on the ramrod so that I would know when I was fully seated. I then inserted the 45-70 case with powder and wad and closed the action. I fired 3 shots like this at 50 yards and to my surprise the group measured just under an inch.
Kinda funny, but i've got a piece of 5/8 round tool steel and my thoughts are much like yours on a breech plug. I've taken measurements of my actual chamber and will make a breech plug to match it and use a Savage ventliner in the end and am thinking of drilling the breech end to take a 209 primer and mill the head of the breech plug to use a 22 Magnum extractor.
I'm also thinking of reccessing the ventliner some to allow for powder but don't want to go too much because when the base of the 300 grain XTP is seated flush with the case mouth, it is just barely still engageing the rifling.
How much powder space did you leave with the copper bushing you soldered in?
Like you, I have to use the lathe at work when I can and I've been so busy I haven't had time to do it yet.
Keep us posted on your progress.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot