Panhandle
Eight Pointer
They're Coming Back
Posts: 226
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Post by Panhandle on Dec 25, 2008 21:11:09 GMT -5
I brought this topic up after my first 5 mile walk in trip back in the hills. First, I've decided to keep my Savage a 50cal for the time being. It shoots 2" groups at 200yds with the BO and it killed two deer this year, one at 243yds and the other at 308yds. That makes it a effective deer killer in my book. The problem is that it's too doggone heavy; 11# plus on my bathroom scales. I want to lighten it up as much as I can in the off season so I'm asking for advice. I'm willing to do what it takes and still have a 200yd + shooter.
Modifications to these?.... Laminate stock?....Barrel?.....Action/Bolt?.... Scope/Mounts/Rings?
I going to get started at the end of season and would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks ,Zen
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Post by tar12 on Dec 25, 2008 23:13:27 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, SW said you could save 6-8 ozs by fluting. As far as the other componets,you would be hard pressed I think to shave any weight.
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 26, 2008 4:11:27 GMT -5
Some ideas: Go to a fixed power 3x scope Cut and recrown barrel, reducing barrel length 4-6 inches if you have a laminate factory stock, Mill slots in forearm, drill hole in pistol grip from the bottom. drill hole in bolt handle, if you decide to have barrel fluted, use a good machinist who knows how to do it without heating barrel and warping it.
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Post by youp50 on Dec 26, 2008 5:28:31 GMT -5
In addition I would look to a lighter weight stock. I believe laminates are the heaviest and synthetics the lightest.
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Post by dwhunter on Dec 26, 2008 7:42:37 GMT -5
On one of my Savages to save a little weight I added a set of Talley One Peice aluminum rings and bases and they work great.
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Depo
Eight Pointer
Posts: 100
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Post by Depo on Dec 26, 2008 7:51:04 GMT -5
Zen, I walked farther deer hunting this year than in a long time, and agree with you completely. By the time you get the weight down to 7 lbs. or so, you could probably buy a nula, which weighs about 5 lbs. unscoped. Buying a 20" pac nor barrel would shave a couple lbs. off, but a good syn. stock will probably weigh as much as your lamanate stock. I think I'll call about a nula, just hate waiting 1 year for the gun.
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Post by DW on Dec 26, 2008 8:10:33 GMT -5
Be interesting to see how bad a 7lb gun kicks shooting a 300gr pill at 2300-2400. This is why I have no interest in a light gun, and I imagine it is even more abuse for the scope.
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joe21a
Eight Pointer
Posts: 215
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Post by joe21a on Dec 26, 2008 9:18:39 GMT -5
I have been checking into ways to lighten the Savage in a 45 cal rifle. One of the best ways to remove weight is to install a good Kevlar/fiberglass stock. They weight at the most 2 lb. and can be lightened a bit more if needed. And these are a much better stock than the Savage plastic ones. It will adsorb much of the recoil and help the action shoot better. The second way to remove weight would be a barrel with a tapered profile in the 18 to 20 in. length. The action could also be lightened a lot but you want to have some idea of what you are doing in that area. Also if you are a person that may double load or shoot your ram rod these mods may not be for you!!!!
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Post by tar12 on Dec 26, 2008 9:31:16 GMT -5
I have had a NULA in my hands.All I thought of was "ouch".Then I tried to find and justify $1500 dollars worth of quality.As far as I know,they are only offered with 1 twist rate option of 1-32.For $1500,there should be a choice.I was not impressed in the least and could not understand all of the hype surrounding this gun.Please enlighten me if I missed something.
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Post by tasaman on Dec 26, 2008 14:52:33 GMT -5
Ok, I am glad someone started this because there is something I've been wondering about for a while. I'm interested in the replacement barrels for the Savage. If you have a good chromoly or stainless barrel why do we need to have a such a thick barrel at the end that barks? Most modern guns have a good taper to them even the large bore rifles such as the 458 and the 505. Now most muzzleloaders have little to any taper to them. I don't have much knowledge of pressures but I do know that if a modern rifle with the same pressures and the same ballistics has a much lighter weight barrel then why can't the Savage or the Pacnor replacements? To some of the other members that have other barrels are they the same as the Pacnor in weight and taper? Since I haven't actually held one how much lighter are the 40 or 45 than the stock Savage? The reason I am asking is I would like to add a few inches of barrel length to a project gun I just purchased but don't want to lug around a benchrest rifle in the field when I'm winding my way around the woods. Thanks for any help.
Ed
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petev
Eight Pointer
Posts: 248
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Post by petev on Dec 26, 2008 19:22:09 GMT -5
I, like DW won't lighten my gun, because I dont want to give it any more reason to kick than it already has. But, while on this subject, and someone mentioned shortening the barrel, I would be interested in finding out what is involved with such work (more for another rifle than for the Savage). Does anyone know if it is a simple matter of giving it to a gunsmith you trust and $100 later you have a shorter barrel that works well? Anybody?
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petev
Eight Pointer
Posts: 248
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Post by petev on Dec 26, 2008 20:07:36 GMT -5
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Post by hillbill on Dec 26, 2008 20:21:30 GMT -5
tasaman, I might be wrong, and Im sure someone will correct me but I believe the thick barrels on the savage is there by design like most other breech loaded guns because of likelyhood of human error/ double loads mainly. we hear of this happening pretty often as well as ramrods being fired without physical harm, maybe a swelled barrel, but with a thinner contour the shooter would likely suffer great harm. I would rather tote the weight around myself. Concerning a lighter rifle Im thinking in that direction for my son who will be carrying a gun in a couple years, right now im thinking Ruger no1 or remington ml smokeless conversion, either would wear a 40 cal bbl and shouldnt be terribly heavy. Bill
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Panhandle
Eight Pointer
They're Coming Back
Posts: 226
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Post by Panhandle on Dec 26, 2008 20:50:48 GMT -5
Thanks guys; lots of good ideas.
I'm going to go see Kevin Rayhill before I get started and see what he could do with the barrel...shortening/fluting/ taper?.... and the bolt handle.
The fixed power scope with good quality aluminum bases and rings is another must. Maybe a 2-7x 32mm
I've got the original black tupperware stock that was originally on it but I think I can modify the laminate and have a better stock, at about the same weight in the end.
I agree on everyones opinions about the excessive recoil. I'll have to give up the Barnes O's and find something in 250-275gns going about 2300fps.
My biggest concern is in shortening the barrel to 20-22 inches and still having an effective long range shooter.
Thanks for the good info. Zen
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petev
Eight Pointer
Posts: 248
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Post by petev on Dec 27, 2008 0:06:21 GMT -5
Well, ph please keep us informed of how the modifications work out.
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Post by youp50 on Dec 27, 2008 5:06:56 GMT -5
i
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Post by youp50 on Dec 27, 2008 5:24:12 GMT -5
There is a rule of thumb as the velocity loss per inch of barrel loss. I believe it is the 50 fps per inch range. A different powder may get the velocity back. Why don't you try a PM to RB and get the skinny on the internal ballistics and a price for the barrel modification at the same time.
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Post by SW on Dec 27, 2008 8:33:22 GMT -5
I've considered an H&R 20 ga frame/lt wt syn stock with a 24-25" barrel, heavily tapered possibly flutted in 40 cal(for sabotless 175 Barnes), maybe MB, with a 20mm 2.5 scope/alloy rings/bases, possibly a 1.5X5 or 2X7. This could be <6# complete and a relatively low kicker. A modified Rem 700ML can be pretty light.
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Al
Spike
Posts: 41
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Post by Al on Dec 27, 2008 9:01:25 GMT -5
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Post by edge on Jan 2, 2009 21:02:37 GMT -5
Panhandle, are you still hunting, or hiking in?
I would suggest you look at either a pack or a tactical sling. Weight can be a bit subjective. I can carry my H&R 45 in one hand, but take a 300 grain bullet over 2100 fps and you will remember that you shot it. IMO, weight adds to stability which generally results in better accuracy....unless still hunting. For a quick running shot I would take the H&R in an instant, but for a 250+ yard shot give me a heavy rifle.
edge.
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Panhandle
Eight Pointer
They're Coming Back
Posts: 226
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Post by Panhandle on Jan 2, 2009 21:27:46 GMT -5
Edge I mostly still hunt in the sand hills where a 5 mile round trip is the norm. I've decided to modify my Savage to make it lighter....shorter barrel...take off wood where I can....quality aluminum bases and rings...lighter fixed power scope...tactical sling. I was just making some inquiries about how short I could go on the barrel and still get 2200+ fps, also as to what powders would work the best in a shorter barrel. Also if it would be best to go to a lighter bullet. This will save me writing you a PM. I would appreciate any info. I've got it set up with a local gunsmith to shorten and crown my barrel when I make up my mind how much to take off. Thanks...Zen
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Post by edge on Jan 2, 2009 21:49:59 GMT -5
You may want to look to duplex to maximize powder burn, or lighter with a faster powder. You have lots of options. I think that PPosey went with a shorter barrel and probably has some loads, but I may be wrong.
edge.
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Post by elkboy65 on Jan 2, 2009 22:38:35 GMT -5
I have a tactical sling that I moved from my Austin & Halleck which is HEAVVVY to my Savage and I'm not so sure I would want to start taking off barrell....I would probably PM PPosey about reducing the barrel length to save on weight.....JMO...
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petev
Eight Pointer
Posts: 248
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Post by petev on Jan 2, 2009 23:22:13 GMT -5
I would be curious as to any conclusions people come to about shortening the barrel.
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Post by DW on Jan 2, 2009 23:49:13 GMT -5
Zen, have you considered a NULA? Should be in the weight range you are looking for and they are shooters.
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Panhandle
Eight Pointer
They're Coming Back
Posts: 226
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Post by Panhandle on Jan 3, 2009 0:00:30 GMT -5
Zen, have you considered a NULA? Should be in the weight range you are looking for and they are shooters. DW I've never seen one in person and I've heard they're good shooters but I've got to go with something affordable right now. I can do the work needed on this project . A friend of mine is going to cut and crown the barrel. Zen
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Post by RBinAR on Jan 3, 2009 5:11:34 GMT -5
Ok, I am glad someone started this because there is something I've been wondering about for a while. I'm interested in the replacement barrels for the Savage. If you have a good chromoly or stainless barrel why do we need to have a such a thick barrel at the end that barks? Most modern guns have a good taper to them even the large bore rifles such as the 458 and the 505. Now most muzzleloaders have little to any taper to them. I don't have much knowledge of pressures but I do know that if a modern rifle with the same pressures and the same ballistics has a much lighter weight barrel then why can't the Savage or the Pacnor replacements? To some of the other members that have other barrels are they the same as the Pacnor in weight and taper? Since I haven't actually held one how much lighter are the 40 or 45 than the stock Savage? The reason I am asking is I would like to add a few inches of barrel length to a project gun I just purchased but don't want to lug around a benchrest rifle in the field when I'm winding my way around the woods. Thanks for any help. Ed Yes you can save weight by thinning the barrel without much effect on the accuracy. I have made more than one double taper 45 caliber barrels. If I were to really want a light weight Savage I'd double taper the barrel then flute the receiver. The receiver is more than ample for the task and only holds the barrel not take load pressure. To do it properly you'd need to space the flutes where they won't interfere with the receiver screws. The receiver would also need bedding to keep it firm on the stock. The bolt handle can be modified as well. There's not much weight loss but when you get serious any will be welcomed. I even recess the breech plug but generally not for weight. A stock can be lessened if it is laminated. A false magazine, reverse cut fore-end, and skeleton cheek plate will make it as light as the plastic. I throw away the ramrod nut for either a segmented rod or bedded holder this looses the spring as well. The bolt can be splined. It is tough enough to take the load but it's made from hardened steel so I don't recommend it unless you have a grinder with shaping capability. Most all the trigger components can be lightened but weight loss is slight and care must be taken not to effect function. I never went whole hog on a rifle before but maybe I'll try some day.
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Post by redm1a on Jan 3, 2009 19:03:12 GMT -5
What a NULA I learn some thing new every time I vist this post.
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Post by redm1a on Jan 3, 2009 19:05:31 GMT -5
I couldnt imagine shooting my ml ll synthetic if it was any lighter,it kicks like a mule now.
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Post by edge on Jan 3, 2009 20:51:09 GMT -5
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