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Post by kodiakgsp on Jan 10, 2009 17:21:10 GMT -5
I usually do not post, just read whats going on. Just recieved the new Cabelas shooting catalog on 1/10/09 and on page 126 there it is. It always seemed as if Cabelas was to good for the 10 ML. This particular model specifically states....10 ML BP.... just wondering if anyone heard of this yet. I guess i do not really see the point of this rifle, knowing that you can do the same thing with a standard 10 ML. I guess maybe legal issues.
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Post by minst7877 on Jan 10, 2009 22:45:06 GMT -5
I got my catalog today as well and noticed the same thing. Nowhere in the writeup did it say that you could use smokeless in it. Did Savage start another line?
Don C
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Post by kodiakgsp on Jan 10, 2009 23:34:58 GMT -5
Exactly what i was wondering, congrats to savage, but i cant see it doing well with a price tag of 699.00 for bp only. I just have to wonder who will buy this knowing you can have the same option, and have smokeless as well for the same price, or generally cheaper. Im sure it will sell to the people that do not know of its counterpart,and a few others as well. Do not understand the thinking i guess.
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Post by Buckrub on Jan 11, 2009 9:48:22 GMT -5
Wow. It says "all new". I'd assume the purpose is to sell a Savage ML II to folks in New Mexico, Colorado, Michigan, Yada, Yada.................... who are uncivilized and have silly laws against smokeless. Don't know of another reason. What I can't figure is what would make this BP only?  ? Technically, what is different than mine?? This says 26" barrel, mine is 24" isn't it? What about the twist? Plus, this has the new stock, but I'd think all their line would have that this year. Puzzling. |
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Post by fowlplay on Jan 11, 2009 17:03:57 GMT -5
IMO...... Savage is a business. A business is to make MONEY!
Savage knows by now that the big retailers are never going to go for a smokeless muzzleloader. So what do you do?
You take your current muzzleloader and add BP to the model number. Place a warning of black powder only and sell to the big retailers. Sounds like smart business to me.
The reason why I think it is a smokeless muzzleloader is because I doubt that Savage would put a cheap barrel on it knowing that some will try smokeless anyway.
Steve
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Post by CraigF on Jan 11, 2009 18:21:25 GMT -5
I wonder if this means that all new savages get 26" barrels? I can see the reason for them in BP terms, more speed. It would give us 60 more FPS in smokeless. Very interesting...... What I would really like to see though is for someone to find one at a Cabelas and read the manual............ Wonder what it says on loads.......  |
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Post by Buckrub on Jan 11, 2009 18:23:26 GMT -5
Lordy, my barrel is already longer than any other BP gun.......just judging from the rack they all sit in at deer camp. Lots about this makes no sense. Someone get to the bottom of this, hurry up!  |
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Post by rlp10ml on Jan 11, 2009 23:59:19 GMT -5
Did anyone notice the Stock? it looks like the new design that they were talking about,how about the 2 front swivel studs and the recoil pad?  |
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jan 12, 2009 5:50:08 GMT -5
Agent Rossman,
Do you have your people embedded over their at Savage gathering the information? Your report on this subject is overdue. Money Penny is awaiting your call.
;D ;D
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Post by CraigF on Jan 12, 2009 9:42:12 GMT -5
Agent Rossman, Do you have your people embedded over their at Savage gathering the information? Your report on this subject is overdue. Money Penny is awaiting your call. ;D ;D LOL!!! |
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 12, 2009 10:19:57 GMT -5
As far as the stock all synthetics have a spot for the second sling swivel on the forearm, they were only installed for the 10FP. Recoil pad is easily changed and they have been installing thicker ones on some models like the Predator Hunter. Even the camo job is close to the Predator Hunter models.
I think they caved into Cabelas and you may see a simuler model for Bass Pro. These are probly the biggest retailers and refused to sell the 10ML due to smokeless and I think pressure from Knight and TC was also a factor. Coming out with an exclusive model is what Cabelas loves and I'm sure they have a contract for a good number of units at a good price and put a chunk of change up front.
The thing to see is if it is still smokeless capable even thou they do not say. And as far as intel this even slipped by RW and others so Savage appears to have been keeping a tight lid on it.
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Post by Buckrub on Jan 12, 2009 10:28:13 GMT -5
Isn't this a couple of hundred dollars more than a camo/blue model of "our" ML II? Why? |
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jan 12, 2009 12:20:08 GMT -5
Wonder if a call to Joe DeGrande would answer Agent Rossman's last question? I have a feeling that the answer is classified as the actual answer would cause massive controversy and turmoil.
We will have to rely on leaks and embedded spys. Good work Agent Rossman. I will have Money Penny bake you a pie.
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Post by mike.dawson on Jan 12, 2009 15:44:05 GMT -5
It is not showing up on their web site yet. This I think would open up a can of worms for Savage. There will be some buyers who think, "well it is a Savage lets dump some smokless in there and see what happens"? Any one going to the shot show in Orlando they will probably display it there. A look at the manual will tell the tale. I think we will have to get "Q" working on this?
Mike
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Post by CraigF on Jan 12, 2009 16:33:19 GMT -5
I can't believe that this will not be able to shoot smokeless. I do believe that the manual will say not too. My reasoning is that I cannot see a gun company taking one of their guns and making it less strong/safe. It would be a lawsuit magnet if they did.
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rcr
Spike
Posts: 13
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Post by rcr on Jan 12, 2009 21:47:35 GMT -5
They are on Cabelas web site, type in savage muzzleloader in the search box.
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Post by jims on Jan 12, 2009 22:11:00 GMT -5
I am with CraigF on this. They can name it anything they want but I believe it is the same ML just with the longer barrel etc. If it handles smokeless it will handle all the subs but just label it a sub gun. You know eventually someone will put smokeless in it and then they will be safe as it will handle those pressures, I just hope they do not put 150 grains of smokeless in as a substitute for 150 grain sub loads.
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Post by mike.dawson on Jan 13, 2009 6:33:03 GMT -5
Can you say pipe bomb! BOOM
Mike
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Post by Buckrub on Jan 13, 2009 9:11:35 GMT -5
I just went to Savage's website and downloaded the 2009 Catalogue. The ML guns are the same, no addition.
This is still a bit puzzling. Why the different barrel? If one thing is different, then it's not the same gun, exactly. What else is different?
I wanna find out what's going on. Doesn't anyone have an 'inside' at Savage, or do they think we are just a pile of nuts???
??
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Post by bigmoose on Jan 13, 2009 9:23:35 GMT -5
Backrub, How does Savage, making a new rifle affect you? Does GM, when putting out a new model check with all owners of older models. Savage putting out a new model is a business decision nothing more, nothing less, I for one wish them the best of luck. It is an excellent company to business with. |
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Post by Buckrub on Jan 13, 2009 10:26:58 GMT -5
Moose, it's BUCK....rub. As in a male deer making a rub on a tree......... and it affects me because I'm curious. GM has NEVER put out a new model of vehicle that they didn't tell ME all about it when it became available. Savage hasn't either. Now they have. I wish them the best of luck too. I just want to know what's going on. Is that awful? I agree it's a good company to do business with, and I hope that continues. But if they wanna do clandestine marketing stuff, that might diminish my opinion of them, it might not. I don't know if that's what this is, that's why I wanna know. Bill |
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Post by bigmoose on Jan 13, 2009 10:51:11 GMT -5
As soon as some gets their hands on one, we will all know.
If I was a betting man I would say, its the same rifle, with cosmetic changes, so Cabelas can sell it. A major market.
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Post by Buckrub on Jan 13, 2009 11:18:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree. I just got answer from Cabela's. It's on the new board. This isn't a bad idea on Cabela's part, if they want to sell ONE Savage ML to the whole country, it'd have to be BP only. By the way, the specs Cabela's sent me via email says 24" barrel. So the only remaining question is to Savage: "Can this Cabela's ML shoot smokeless" |
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Post by minst7877 on Jan 13, 2009 12:19:06 GMT -5
A couple of years ago I went into Cabala's and asked to see a Savage ML II. They told me in no uncertain terms that they would not ever have one of them in their store. They stated that using smokeless in a muzzleloader was totally unsafe and they would not have anything in their store to promote it.  The one I was talking with was the manager and stated this was corporate policy. I shook my head and told him he needed to do some research on the subject for himself. I also asked him what kept people from loading smokeless in any other muzzleloader that they sold. I then asked if they were going to quite selling reloading supplies as that was just as inherently dangerous. Ignorance is dangerous. Don C |
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Post by bigmoose on Jan 13, 2009 14:54:14 GMT -5
I wonder if they changed the design of the breech plug, since they say it can shoot 777 ?
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Post by Buckrub on Jan 13, 2009 16:25:55 GMT -5
Savage hasn't returned my call as of yet.
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Post by 1SHOT1KILL on Jan 13, 2009 16:34:48 GMT -5
Alright since the cat is out of the bag, I gues I can shed some light on this subject now. Per Brain Herrick, VP of Savage, in a conversation about 4-6 weeks ago, I was infomred of the Cabela's deal.
Basically, here is what the deal is:
The Savage 10ML-II is still and will continue to be the 10-ML-II.
The model that Cabela's will be selling, the 10ML-BP, will be a special run, strictly for Cabela's and Cabela's only. If Bass Pro, want's to sell it as well, Savage may accomidate them as well, with the same 10ML-BP as well, but only time will tell, if Bass Pro will sell it that model or not.
On the 10ML-BP, the barrel will be 26", the new breech plug will be hex cut to require a 3/8" socket to remove the breech plug. Now other changes to the breech plug. The barrel will be stamped with the standard, use black powder and/or black powder substitues only, bravo sierra on it, for pure liability reasons. Cabela's would not accept the deal without it. I don't recall if he mentioned that it had the new Accu-Stock on it or not, but I don't believe it does. I think it is the new style stock that looks like the Accu-Stock on the outside.
The 10ML-BP is still built off the same action as the 10ML-II, and the barrel it the same grade stainless and chrome-moly as the 10ML-II as well. The Breech Plug is still made of 4140 chrome-moly as well. So to answer all your questions, yes it can still shoot smokeless powder.
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Post by mike3132 on Jan 13, 2009 16:59:40 GMT -5
Thanks Bill for clarifying that for use. Time will tell how this new adventure will pan out. Mike
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Post by dans on Jan 13, 2009 17:13:08 GMT -5
Are they going to offer those hex headed breech plugs for sale as replacement parts ? I would spring for one or three of those.
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Post by 1SHOT1KILL on Jan 13, 2009 18:23:20 GMT -5
Dans, I hope the hex head BreechPlug does become the standard BP used on the 10ML-II as well. It would help out in eliminatine some of those stuck BP's problems, I'm sure.
One thing I forgot to mention, on the 10ML-BP, is that the ram rod thimble will be aprroximately 50% longer as well and have 2 screws securingit to the barrel instead of one.
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? Technically, what is different than mine??
The one I was talking with was the manager and stated this was corporate policy. I shook my head and told him he needed to do some research on the subject for himself. I also asked him what kept people from loading smokeless in any other muzzleloader that they sold. I then asked if they were going to quite selling reloading supplies as that was just as inherently dangerous. Ignorance is dangerous.
