C.SHARPS ARMS CO.

[Pocampo]

Does anyone here on the board have a C.Sharps Arms Co. rifle. They are located in Big Timber Montana, U.S.A., big sky country thats for sure.

I have two of their rifles a custom 1874 in 45/70 and another 1874 in 50/100. I believe these rifles to be of the highest quality and workmanship and are better than the originals in all ways except for the nostalgia, mystique, and folk lore that surrounds them, even to this very day, and to think the buffalo have been gone for over 100 years.

I would like to hear about your experiences with different loads/bullets, accuracy, etc also any tips you might have concerning the Model 1874 Sharps rifles.

If interested, you can also check them out @ www.csharpsarms.com on the web for more info.
Pocampo

[TSK]

Pocampo-
I have a Mod. 1874 from C. Sharps I bought as a barreled action in 1999, but in cal. .40-70-2.5" so I cannot do you any good as far as load info goes. It is a top quality rifle and I'd recommend one to anyone looking to buy an 1874 Sharps repro.

As far as tips about shooting an 1874 Sharps; don't drop the breech block with the hammer down on a fired round, you may damage the firing pin; don't dry fire the set triggers unless the hammer IS down, you might break the sear lever; don't force the lever too far open against the lever spring to extract a cartridge as the spring may be pushed beyond it's working limits. If you're careful in these areas, a GOOD '74 should give many, many years of shooting pleasure.
Ted K

[Pocampo]

TSK,
thanks for the good tips. A couple of them I had not heard before. These rifles are just awesome! If you run across any good info on these rifles please let me know. Good luck with your 40-70.
Pocampo

[frosty]

Pocampo, I hope the info helped you locate some ammo for your 50 cal...Had my Wesson & Harrington Buffalo Classic out thi past saturday. You can hit clay pidgeons on a bank at 300 yds! The load is a 538 gr. Paul Jones creedmore bullet, Winchester brass, 61 gr. ffg, .030 veggie fiber wad, Federal 215 mag primer...One of the most accurate 45-70 loads I've ever shot.

[Pocampo]

frosty,
thanks for the info. I willhave to remember that load data. Also, that sounds like a good shooting rifle you have there.
I am always interested in accurate 45/70 loads.
Pocampo

[frosty]

Pocampo, Are there any black powder ctg sillohette matches near your location? Not to much going on around here...

[Pocampo]

frosty,
unfortunately not. There are several big ones around the country, but all are far from Greenville, IL. I would like to attend one sometime in Wyoming and hopefully meet Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe. These two guys have a treasure trove of knowledge on shooting black powder cartridge guns.

Also I would like to go to Colorado to try and harvest a big Buffalo at the Rocking 7 Ranch. I think that's the correct name. They have a large herd of mature free roaming Buffalo that are huge. I would love to try one with the old 50/100 sharps. Who knows, maybe someday!
Pocampo

[frosty]

Pocampo, Thanx for getting back to me...I agree that Sharps rifles are of the highest quality, but I've seem to have fallen in love with High walls...Not to sure which one I want, probably a Winchester, in 45 2.4". It seems if you go with the larger 45 caliber ctg.'s, the recoil factor comes into play...Not that I'm complaining,because I used to shoot lots of 458 & 375 mag. Those longer ctgs such as the 45-100, 45-120,etc are very respectable long range bpcr silloette rounds, which dont come into they're own till about 500 yds, or so. The 45-70 and 45-90 seem to be the best all around bpcr rounds for target shooting and moderate to larger game animals out to that 500-600 yd mark.

[Pocampo]

frosty,
to me the best all around rifle is the old 45/70. It is a good cartridge and appeals to a lot of people because of the availability of factory loaded ammo. You can shoot smokeless or BP, it's your choice.

The 44/90, 45/110. etc are very good long range rounds, but have to be handloaded and most guys just don't want that much BS... Also from a resale standpoint it's harder to sell the guns that you can't get factory loaded ammo for.

The Winchester High Walls are nice guns and also have a loyal following as does the resurected Ballard.
Also what about the Browning High Wall or another of my all time favorites a Remington No. 1 Rolling Block Mid-Range or the Mid-Range Sporter that was resurected starting in 1997 and are available from the Remington Custom Shop $1275-$2750. ;D
Pocampo

[Teleoceras]

Pocampo:

I can't argue about the .45-70! I love my Pedersoli Trapdoor Springfield Rifle. ;D She is one great shooter!

While I am addictied to the looks of the Trapdoor, I do like to eyeball the Shiloh Sharps 1874 Sharp's Military Rifle.

[frosty]

I never dreampt for a thousand years that I would fall in love with black powder ctg guns...So many guns, so little time...I definetely want to try a C Sharps rifle. I just havent decided which one as of yet...

[Pocampo]

Teleoceras,
I love the old Trapdoors. I have a U. S. Springfield model 1873 that was actually mfg in 1879 that is in excellent original condition and it is a pleasure to shoot. The cartouche and all markings match and i'm sure has a bit of history behind it. On one side of the stock there are seven hash marks about 1/2" long evenly spaced and parallel. I am not sure what this is supposed to signify, but in the old days it was a way to mark your kills, etc.. If she could only talk!

Frosty,
Everything Old is New again ;D
Pocampo

[frosty]

I had a model 1884 mfg around 1887 in 45-70, but couldnt get her to shoot...Bore dia was to large (land to land) and it was hard to find bullets with proper "bore riding nose dia". 500 gr. or larger would keyhole.

[Pocampo]

frosty,
you could slug the bore for accurate dimensions and get a custom bullet mould made to your specs. There are a few companies who do this, but it would probably be expensive.

Brooks True-Bore Bullet Moulds
PO Box 105
Big Timber, MT 59011

Hoch Bullet Moulds
PO Box 132
fruita, CO 81521
PH: 303-858-9191

Ballard Bullet moulds
PO box 298
Clancy, MT 59634
PH: 406-933-8217

Paul Jones Moulds
4901 Telegraph Road
Los Angeles, CA 90022
PH: 310-262-1510

I thought this info might help you decide
Pocampo

[frosty]

Pocampo, I really like the Paul Jones 538 gr. spitzer bullet; What a great shooter! My rifle has a 1-20" twist, and according to any calculatoins I've made you should have around a 17" twist to properly stabilize that bullet...It is similar to a Lyman Postell. Try it in your 45-70. I can easily hit clay birds at several hundred yds or so... Would probably try Hoch.

[Pocampo]

frosty,
both of my C. Sharps rifles have a 1 in 18" twist barrels. Can you buy the Paul Jones 538gr spitzers pre made or do you have to purchase a mould and pour your own? Also what powder and charge wt are you using with this bullet? I have read good things about the Brooks Bullet Moulds by Mike Venturino. I currently use Lyman mould# 457125-500gr and also mould# 457193-405gr. I also have some .45/.458-500gr RN 4 groove bullets made by
Montana Precision Swaging,
PO Box 4746,
Butte, Mt. 59702
PH: 406-782-7502
Pocampo

[frosty]

Pocampo, I purchase those bullets from Cabelas...They come 50 to a box,are1-20 alloy,and they cost around $17.00 per 50. They are pre-lubed with Sagebrush allox lube. It seems to work extremely well, as well as SPG. I shoot those bullets over 61 gr. ffg powder...I shoot both Winchester& Remington brass-(Win. holds about 5-8 gr. more powder thanREM. or Federal) That Paul Jones bullet is quite similar to a Lyman Postell, and it is a great shooter.

[Pocampo]

frosty,
are you seating the bullet all the way in the case or is one of the grease grooves showing? I have the bullet seating depth set on mine where the bullet is seated about .005" from touching the rifling and some style bullets will have a whole or partial grease groove showing.

I have never been able to get anywhere close to 70grs of powder in these BP cartridges with the bullet fully seated as the old timers claim to have. They must of used a finer grain powder and a bullet no heavier than 405grs.

Using Win brass and a 520 gr RN bullet (Lyman #457125) over a .030" card wad and one grease groove exposed maximum powder capacity is 68.0 grs of FFg by actual wt.
Pocampo

[frosty]

Pocampo, Those old cases were alot thinner & much more frail...Winchester brass seems to hold the most powder. However, using a 30" drop tube, .030 wad and seating the bullet with one groove partially exposed, I can hardly squeeze 62 gr, ffg powder in the case...That is also with 1/16 of compression! The load shoots O.K. , though. I cannot seat that bullet out further, as my rufle has a shallow throat.

[Pocampo]

Frosty,
you are absolutely correct about the old brass cartridge cases being thinner and more susceptible to cracking, etc.

I have also read where a lot of the Buffalo hunters were using imported English BP (Curtis & Harvey's and Pigou, Laurence & Wilks FG) and the granulation was a little different than Dupont and Hazard the two leading brands of American powder. It was reported the English powder burned moister and with much greater energy than the American powders which burned hot, dry, and cakey making the barrels harder to clean.

Also the throat depth does vary in different rifles and can make a difference in the overall seating depth as well as the overall loaded cartridge length.

Have you ever shot or made any paper patched bullets just for the sake of nostalgia to see how they would shoot? I know a lot of the "Old Buffalo Hunters" used them with an undersize bullet mould and rifles made with shallower rifling .0025" VS .004"-.006" for guns that shot non paper patched cartridges.
Pocampo

[frosty]

Pocampo, Shooting paper patched bullets is something I have not yet tryed...I think that Sharps has a pretty good book on the subject. My guns dont have a deep enough throat to shoot those type bullets. I'm pretty sure that they seat them very shallow and fill the case with powder. The bullets are usually a softer alloy with no grooves. This allows more bearing surface to hit the rifling, but one must be careful not to damage that patch, or leading and accuracy problems will occur.

[dickinillinois]

For any of you fellas in or near the state of Illinois there are NRA BPCR silhouette matches being conducted in Effingham, IL on a monthly basis. There are also matches in Friendship, IN, and ST Louis, MO. For info on the Effingham matches give me a shout at rcmillerjr @ mchsi.com (delete the spaces)

Dickinillinois