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Post by eshoremd on Jun 21, 2006 6:43:35 GMT -5
i took this statement from another site and was wondering what you experts think. are these as good as the savage?
I bought a Bad Bull custom Muzzleloader. This gun is unreal. It is a 45 cal. that uses smokeless powder. I will be shooting a Hornady 300gr. HP bullet. This gun propels this bullet at 3050 Ft/sec at the muzzle and has 5601 ft/lbs of energy. This is a REAL 300 yard muzzleloader that still retains 1660 ft/sec velocity and an energy of 1836 ft/lbs at this range. Can't wait to get this gun out deer hunting.
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Post by MountainMan on Jun 21, 2006 7:02:43 GMT -5
Forget the goat--the dead horse needs more beating! ;D eshore, just do a search of this forum using the terms "bad bull." I think you'll find plenty of different opinions.  |
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Post by dwhunter on Jun 21, 2006 7:07:39 GMT -5
I think it's mostly hype but even if it's not you have to get a second mortgage to buy one.  |
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Post by Nic_58 on Jun 21, 2006 7:22:46 GMT -5
I think it's mostly hype but even if it's not you have to get a second mortgage to buy one. ......and, shoulder surgery to repair the beating you would take shooting a 300 gr. bullet at 3000 fps! OUCH!!  |
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Post by bubba on Jun 21, 2006 7:41:38 GMT -5
5,000+ FPE, good luck with your second shot........
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Post by edge on Jun 21, 2006 8:33:53 GMT -5
I think that they may be all that they advertise, but I don't know. They are a lot of money, that is for darn sure. I don't know that they are out of line for a custom rifle. IMO, shooting without sabots can certainly be accurate and less prone to barrel heat than when using sabots. The rifles appear to come with muzzle breaks so the recoil may not be as bad as would first appear, but you may not want to spend the whole day at the range, AND the person next to you will NOT be your friend My biggest problem is that I see no way to get the primer out of the rifle if you do not shoot it! At least in NJ, if the primer is out of a muzzleloader the rifle is considered unloaded. edge. |
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Post by RBinAR on Jun 21, 2006 14:16:16 GMT -5
8-)What is my opinion?
Well.... the 375 Weatherby Magnum and the 375 RUM both shoot 300 grain bullets to lesser speeds than advertised here. Both the Weatherby and Remington cases can hold over 100 grains of powder and are sure enough elephant guns.
Someone wanting to go deer hunting with such a load is (IMO) barely within the limits of what can be called sane. The recoil is only part of the picture. Accuracy is the biggest question. Few people can shoot such big kicking guns into adaquate groups and then some type of standing position is needed to help absorb the punishment.
The 10ML can actually shoot 300 grain bullets to light speed but how many times do you hear of reports where deer hunters have developed such a load? There is no logic to such a venture.
Besides the downsides there is a much better way. A 45 caliber could be tuned to shoot the 200 grain SST to about 2700fps with no big problem. There is still a fair amount of recoil but no more than a stiff 300 Magnum load with a 180 grain bullet or about 1/2 the elephant gun's kick.
If the 200 grain SST is good to 300 yards depends on the shooter. But it has plenty of energy there (over 1450fpe) and not terrible trajectory.
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Post by ukwildcat on Jun 21, 2006 19:45:40 GMT -5
Man, I would like to have one to try. But the thousands to purchase one, to me is unjustifiable. I mean you can buy several expensive High powered rifles for that money. As far as the gun is concerned, I would like to see if they live up to the hype. For the difference in price between the 10ML and the bad bull, I cannot believe the difference would be worth it. The 10ML is capable of 300 yard shots and possibly 400.....right shooter right conditions, AND JUST AS IMPORTANT, a high quality scope with turrets or adjustments. Any muzzleloader that performs like the 10ml or the bad bull or high powered rifle, alot of times the gun is capable...But the scope and or the shooter is not capable. Everybody wants to be the first muzzleloading sniper...It is four things and the thousands spent on a bad bull is only 25percent of the four. SHOOTER, SCOPE, CONDITIONS, AND LAST...the GUN.....just my opinion of course.
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Post by ourway77 on Jun 22, 2006 4:52:42 GMT -5
EshoreMD, All that glitters is not Gold, But if you have the bucks go for it. Too much money for me. I have made some fantastic shots with my Savage at only a fraction of the cost. Keep us informed as to how it shoots and be honest as to whether you really think it lives up to its claims. I hope you have some meat on your bones. As I feel you are going to need it, it will probably nock the snot out of you. Where on Eastern Shore are you. Lou
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Post by edge on Jun 22, 2006 7:47:09 GMT -5
IMO, issue number one is price and that is a personal issue. Many here have spent a lot extra for a Henry Ball model, or to have a gunsmith do work on your standard rifle. You still have the $50.00 Savage barrel on your pretty rifle.
IF the Bad Bull rifles are quality made with match grade barrels and come with trued actions and a good crown and with a good muzzle brake, and with a quality aftermarket stock then who is to say that they are too expensive....other than the person buying it. They also imply that they guarantee a MOA rifle!
The issue of recoil is a non starter for me. If you want to shoot a 300 grain bullet @2900 fps then you had better expect recoil even with a good brake!
BUT, nobody said that you have to use their MOST powerful load! Their max load is 160 grains of powder, but the low end is only 100 grains.
AND PLEASE don't tell me that you can't change loads and powders, cuz you can't do that with the Savage either ( according to Savage) but it happens everyday!
I have seen loads of 36 grains of N110 which is about 30% below the Savage minimum, and I have seen loads of over 80 grains of powders not approved.
FYI, their load shows the 300 grain bullet 8 inches low @ 300 yards, which is pretty flat for a 45 rifle. Your Savage at 2400 would be about 19 inches low @ 300.
edge.
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Post by jjw on Jun 24, 2006 15:52:37 GMT -5
I guess it would be great for sniping that stray doe at 1,000 yards. |
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Post by BMiller on Feb 15, 2008 17:45:58 GMT -5
I have seen this rifle in action and have shot it once and it is incredible. The guy who owns the rifle originally had the 10ML but upgraded to the Bad Bull. I didn't find the recoil to be that bad at all. Its less than any of the 12 gauge high performance sabot/slugs that I have shot. The only shot I took was at a doe at about 230 yards and it dropped in its tracks. But I have seen him take deer out to 500 yards with this gun and targets even further. That being said, he shoots a lot more than the average person and is amazingly accurate so that might have a bit to do with it. The only real down side is the reloading part. The ram rod is in three pieces which you have to screw together, and other than that there is a funnel that you stick in the barrel to pour the powder in on account of the muzzle break. But to the guns defense, I've never seen anyone need the second shot. I've personally seen 9 deer taken with this gun and only 1 deer took more than 2 steps and those two steps were usually backwards or sideways. The gun shoots straight enough that with a little practice there won't be any more guess work. For a custom rifle I don't think that its that outrageously priced, it all just depends on how into muzzleloading you are or if you live in a state that does not allow rifles. I know as soon as I graduate it will be the first gun I buy. As for the question on the primer removal, I really couldn't answer that because I did not load the gun and I did not need to re-load the gun on the afternoon that I used it. I am assuming that it comes out pretty readily because I know that in Iowa, the primer has to be out for it to legally be transported in the car and the owner of the gun never allows guns in his truck that "aren't legal". So that might answer that. So I hope that I have a little bit of insight to the topic as it looks like
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Post by edge on Feb 15, 2008 18:27:39 GMT -5
BMiller Guest Join the group! Contrary to our name, ALL smokeless muzzleloading is welcome here  edge. |
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Post by deadeye on Feb 15, 2008 18:45:34 GMT -5
my muzzleloading dream gun! ;D  |
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Post by SW on Feb 15, 2008 20:05:06 GMT -5
BMiller, join our group. Your write-up concerning the BB is about whay I have expected it to be. I used to want one but the 40 cal, which is legal here in AR, takes away any need for the larger caliber. For those, like me, who only hunt with bows and MLers, the BB would likely cost less than the sum of all we've spent on lesser rifles. I'm not sure that many/any of us have ML rifles that are truely more than 300-350 yd rifles. The drop isn't such a big deal, especially with lazer range finders but the wind drift is a major factor. Practice helps.
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Post by bigmoose on Feb 15, 2008 20:16:40 GMT -5
Your money is better spent with a Rick Bibby special. While Rick has never made any accuracy claims to me, the rifle shoots light out, If an old broken down old man like me can get 3/4 inch groups, just think what you young bright eye guys could do with one of his rifles. And a 300gr. bullet at 2257 fps kills, a 1500 plus pound animal real quick.
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