Hornady Fpb's and Smokeless

I haven't shot these bullets yet. They are a 325 gr. aren't they? But since 5744 builds pressure very fast, I believe you are well over 40000 psi limit. Remember 45 grs. of 5744 and a 300 gr. bullet is over 40000 psi. My guess is about 38 grs. of 5744 is about right. 40 grs. of 4759 would be faster with about the same pressure. How hard are they to load in your savage?

Depo-The bullets are 350gr. When i shot these i really didn't know where to start. i guess i'll back down to 38gr. of 5744, and try 4759 with 40gr. Danno- oddly the inside cup of the bullet held up fine. The little copper cup/dish/hollow rear-whatever, looks unaffected. The recovered bullets remind me of a mushroomed maxi-ball with a copper cup stuck to the back.

[/img] here is a picture of the 350gr. fpb's shot with 43gr of 5744. jacket pieces 30ft from muzzle, bullets removed from 100yd sand backstop.

the seperated jacket measures .0065. seems thin, kinda like tin foil.

Mike, isn't that remark a little harsh? Is it the fault of the bullet if Hornady designed it not to be used with smokeless powder? I am just hoping it will shoot with BH209 so I can use it in Colorado.

I wonder how the magnum sub-base made by MMP(or a 28g wad with the pedals cut off) would do under this bullet. Once again, this goes against the Sav owner's manual in 2 ways.

Since most dont use BP subs in the Savage that bullet is useless for our gun. Hornady designed it to compete with the Power Belt bullet which is another useless bullet for smokeless muzzleloading. There are other bullets on the market that would be a better choice.

It might work better with BH 209 but most likely wont because that powder from what Ive read is close to 5744 in performance. Mike

clintml, great post I only wish it was about a week earlier.

Last week I talked with Hornady before I ordered these to try and they said it worked great in the Savage with 4227, 5744, and Lil Gun. However they failed to mention the charge weights.

So, I ordered them from Graf and Sons hoping to have a big game load finally that would be a good one. I was going to try them with N120, which I am sure I could get it to ignite however after your findings I would probably have to reduce the charge weight to lower than I was hoping for.

Looking more closely at the picture and agreeing with rossman40 it looks like after orbutration (the bullet swelling) the bullet might not have followed the lands of your barrel for proper spin for some TBD amount of time. It looks like at these speeds and pressure the lands acted like a razor shaving off some of the jacket.

I would think the shavings would cause pressure loss, and at the crown uneven gas escaping, which could lead to the spraying pattern you were seeing.

I would be interested in edge's take on this.

I will probably not try them in my savage, but will give them a try in my brothers T/C omega and see how they do with 100 grains of 777.

I just read RW's report and he believes Hornady and says they are jacketed which I guess technically is correct. Of course Hornady has stretched things again with the line "a thick bonded jacket" in the video and even the printed material says "at impact velocities from 800 to 2000+ fps" but they only shoot it at 1950fps. Clint didn't chrono but I would think 43gr of 5744 behind a 350gr bullet would be less then 2200fps. But I would think much over 2000fps the friction would get you. If you notice the jacket pieces split at the areas where the lands are, if the jacket was thicker it may have helped. RW didn't list load data except he that he used BH209 (smokeless behind bore size is a factory no-no). He did get a good looking group. But it is quite evident he didn't recover any bullets as he used Hornady's photo. Maybe BH209 with a muzzle velocity less then 2000fps maybe the trick. It is still a prime candidate for guys that have to use bore size bullets out of a ML.

The rumor I heard is that all the early bullets were basically hand made and when they started the production run they couldn't get the bullets to come out right. I wonder how much of a change from the early bullets that they tested with, showed off and sent out to some writers to the production bullets there is. As Clint said maybe the bullets he got were screw ups that got less plating. It almost looks like they start with the swagged core, plate it and then insert the plastic tip and swag/size again which would result in the cracking if the plating was too thin or the core size was below limits. If so is there any QC at Hornady? Who else has received/bought some? Are those pre-cracked?

The ones I received also have cracked jackets.

Just got my GUN TESTS, JULY issue, Story about Savage shooting FPB bullets, using Buckhorn 209, results, sub one inch groups, They rate the Savage Number 1, but we already know that.

Marty

Onecardchuck,
No they didn't, they tested the Savage, the Knight KP-1, they liked it would like to see a better breech plug, gave it a B+, Thompson Encore Pro Hunter grade B, said it was very overpriced,
Thompson Triumph Grade D-, Savage A the class of the field.

Marty

Trying to keep this thread alive to see if anyone has a smokeless recipe for these bullets. Picked some up at Wally world tonight. No cracks in any of those in my package.

i think we have to remember that the savage is a minority. when bullet companies design a bullet it is usually for BP or subs. i think this is like others have said, its an answer to the power belt and should work great in a non smokeless MLr. i wonder if the twist rate with the pressure is carving off plating?