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Post by DW on Dec 29, 2008 19:34:21 GMT -5
Vote for your brand or in my case brands. These seem the most logical choices but I'm sure I omitted some by accident.
Also if you know someone who is not a member but had problems, please cast a vote.
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Post by dougedwards on Dec 29, 2008 20:02:31 GMT -5
Is this only a vote for brands that have failed?
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Post by DW on Dec 29, 2008 20:03:49 GMT -5
Is this only a vote for brands that have failed? Yes. |
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Post by SW on Dec 29, 2008 20:16:42 GMT -5
The poll question(Vote for your choice of brands) and the poll's goal seem somewhat different as "my choice" wouldn't be "what failed" necessarily. This will be helpful to all who are considering an AO scope.
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Post by deadeye on Dec 29, 2008 21:24:50 GMT -5
excellent dw,this will be of interest
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Post by CraigF on Dec 29, 2008 21:34:01 GMT -5
What, no Nightforce on the list? ;D
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Post by dougedwards on Dec 29, 2008 21:37:40 GMT -5
What, no Nightforce on the list? ;D Or Bushnell 6500 |
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Post by DW on Dec 29, 2008 21:43:25 GMT -5
What, no Nightforce on the list? ;D Or Bushnell 6500 Send it to me, I'll cure that. ;D |
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Post by richard on Dec 29, 2008 22:11:21 GMT -5
DW.......I voted for my choice; that is, the one I like! The Burris Short Mag! I just may put my Nightforce on the Savage when the new barrel arrives  |
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Post by esmd on Dec 29, 2008 22:16:16 GMT -5
My brother had a 4.5-14x40AO Nikon Buckmaster (the old style) go screwy on him. He sent it back to Nikon, and they sent him a brand new one free of charge.
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Post by deadeye on Dec 30, 2008 23:19:43 GMT -5
bump/ just 14 voters/ 22 votes. are most using scopes not listed?  |
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rexxer
Eight Pointer
Posts: 184
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Post by rexxer on Dec 30, 2008 23:41:53 GMT -5
I think that is just the no. of failures!
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Post by dougedwards on Dec 31, 2008 3:09:40 GMT -5
bump/ just 14 voters/ 22 votes. are most using scopes not listed? Actually I suspected the number of mechanical failures to be much higher. That isn't really a large percentage of scopes considering the number of board members here. Of the 22 AO mechanical failures listed 4 of them were DW's. What the heck are you doing to those scopes DW??  I am also wondering if the side focus type of AO scopes are more prone to failure than those adjusted by the objective bell. Doug |
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Dec 31, 2008 5:22:30 GMT -5
I have a Leopold VariX III that I will be re-installing on my .243. It is a 6.5 - 20X AO and at the end of the summer I shot 2 groups that barely stayed on an 8.5 X 11 steet of paper at 150 yds.
This gun is a "lights-out" MOA shooter and something happened to the scope that I have not figured out yet. I completely dissassembled the mounts and rings. Everything seemed tight and right. I put everything back together but have yet to shoot it.
How do you tell if it's the AO that failed? I guess if I left it in one position and shot a good group and then moved it and shot a bad group I would know.
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Post by DW on Dec 31, 2008 6:15:31 GMT -5
bump/ just 14 voters/ 22 votes. are most using scopes not listed? Actually I suspected the number of mechanical failures to be much higher. That isn't really a large percentage of scopes considering the number of board members here. Of the 22 AO mechanical failures listed 4 of them were DW's. What the heck are you doing to those scopes DW?? I am also wondering if the side focus type of AO scopes are more prone to failure than those adjusted by the objective bell. Doug I don't know Doug, I shoot a lot but there are others who shoot as much or more. 2 of the scopes had side focus and 2 were bell adjustment. Wilms on the Sightron I could not adjust the parallax out of the sight picture when the side focus failed. |
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Dec 31, 2008 6:41:35 GMT -5
So you saw it in the view and was not related to POI probs?
This is the only Leupold I own that was bought used....right here on the trade blanket. I have shot my .243 at least 200 times with this scope with no probs. When I figure out the problem, I'll report back.
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Post by ChrisChampion on Dec 31, 2008 9:11:34 GMT -5
Is this pole related to AO scopes that have failed on the ML-II, or just AO scope failures in general? My guess is that not too many of us us AO scopes on our Savages. Most AO scopes I've seen are on low recoil long range varmit or target guns.
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Post by deadeye on Dec 31, 2008 9:36:40 GMT -5
i really like the side parrallax feature,it is quick & convenient,but i think some manufacturers are relativly new to their line so time only tells the tale,so keep sending those failures in for repair,they will correct the problem eventually,i know its a pain ,like dw i know what your going through. as far as my sp failures the sp knob became freewheelin(no resistence) no adjustment @ all.when barska tacticle were new i broke 4 scopes 3-within 15 shots w/300rum,1 lasted 25,sold those to friends very cheap w/warning to use on their black powders,so far fine.
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Post by dwhunter on Dec 31, 2008 14:12:25 GMT -5
I really don't think this poll proves anything.  |
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Post by dougedwards on Dec 31, 2008 18:48:22 GMT -5
I really don't think this poll proves anything. It doesn't prove anything. It isn't a large enough sample from which to draw conclusions. It is an interesting poll however. I am even wondering if everyone understood that the vote was not for a favorite scope but one that had malfunctioned. I am still curious about the added stability that a 30mm main tube with a thicker wall might provide to the internals. Here is a link showing what happens to a rifle scope during the shot. www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5pVya7eask |
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Post by DW on Dec 31, 2008 19:39:41 GMT -5
Cool video Doug, a 30mm tube would certainly seem to help combat failures and I can see where the advice the Leupold tech said about a shorter scope helping might be true also since there would be less whiplash.
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Post by ozark on Dec 31, 2008 22:36:46 GMT -5
OK, I don't know who or how this partricular survey could help anyone. Second, I cannot see why anyone shooting the Savage ML would need the AO feature since the range isn't going to be that great. The survey appears to show that all brands are capable of failures and that should be obvious to all. After all the scope is very complex compared to the rifle itself.
Large objective lens and eyepieces seem to be the trend now. Perhaps this makes it a bit more difficult to look throught he center of the scope tube. However, If you do view through the very center of the tube paralax is not a necessity to consider. I have been using scopes since the early fifties and they have improved a lot since then. However as far as being accurate the old ones were equal to the latest. You probably get what you pay for but there is no way that a 1000 dollar scope is five times as good as a 200 dollar scope. But I think we can agree that there is much more disappointment when a very expensive scope fails.Ozark
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Post by CraigF on Jan 1, 2009 11:09:36 GMT -5
Doug, that is an amazing amount of flex, thanks for posting it.
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rexxer
Eight Pointer
Posts: 184
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Post by rexxer on Jan 1, 2009 13:30:06 GMT -5
OZARK: Second, I cannot see why anyone shooting the Savage ML would need the AO feature since the range isn't going to be that great.
Not having the side AO might not be much of a option in the future. It seems more and more of the medium to higher end companies are jumping on the band wagon. Maybe its a trend to charge more money,I don't know but non AO are being more limited!
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Post by DW on Jan 1, 2009 14:10:25 GMT -5
So you saw it in the view and was not related to POI probs? This is the only Leupold I own that was bought used....right here on the trade blanket. I have shot my .243 at least 200 times with this scope with no probs. When I figure out the problem, I'll report back. Sorry Wilms, I missed this. Correct, POI had no bearing, just a fuzzy sight picture. |
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Post by DBinNY on Jan 1, 2009 21:38:59 GMT -5
I really don't think this poll proves anything. You are correct. To produce meaningful results, you would be better off with a failure rate with a meaningful number of each model being tested with each model being subjected to the same level of abuse. As an example, maybe 50 guys have model x and 5 of them have failed (10% failure rate). 100 guys have model y and 8 of them failed (8% failure rate). This poll would lead lead one to falsely believe that model x was slightly more dependable than model y because we have 5 reported failures with model x and 8 with model y... The failure rate is a better indicator.... and then only if we can assume that all models have been subjected to the same number of shots and the same level of recoil (bullet weight, powder weight, velocity) under the same conditions (i.e., lead sled?, same mounting system?, temperature?). It's easy to understand that the necessary assumptions are violated and that performing a valid test would require some pretty contolled conditions. |
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Post by DannoBoone on Jan 1, 2009 22:18:34 GMT -5
The only non-AO scope I have is a Bushy Trophy on a Marlin 17hmr.
One of the last Japanese made Trashco's is on my Encore Tac 20,
and is a 6-24 AO scope.
A vintage K10 with AO has been on and off several rifles (including
the 10MLII) for the past 33 years.
All the rest are Bushy AO's (one is CALLED a Browning, but is
really a 3200), including a couple Banners.
Knock on wood, but to date I have never had an AO scope failure.
Three on rifles with mercury recoil reducers and a couple have
been "subjected" to a lead sled.
Perhaps this "luck" is partially due to me hating heavy recoil loads.
I always use lighter bullets when possible if they can still give a
decent trajectory. My idea of a "thumper" round is driving a 200gr
bullet to 27-2800fps in the 10ML, or a 120gr bullet to 3400fps in
the 7mm WSM. I quite imagine driving a 300gr bullet to 2400fps
in the 10ML is much harder on a scope. One might also imagine
that powders producing a sharp pressure rise in the barrel which
also produce heavier perceived recoil than that of a slower
burning powder producing the same fps, but with less perceived
recoil, have much the same effect on the scope.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jan 2, 2009 21:38:18 GMT -5
I have several Leupold VXII, one VXI, and one VariX III I think I have about 8 or so total.... I have the VXII 3x9 on my MLII I have have never had a problem with Leupold. Drop
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