45 Sabotless accuracy

[CraigF]

I am probably going to get a 45 and would like to see which twist rate has the best results with you guys. I will probably get a 26" barrel and don't have any desire to shoot saboted loads. The reason is that my 50 shoots really good, when it is working right. I am tired of accuracy going south once the temp gets over 60 degrees. I can't say how much I appreciate those of you who have gone before in this and DaveD, well that goes without saying.

[DW]

Craig, mine shoots great with either of the Parker BE's, the 300 SST is a work in progress but still shoots well enough for me to hunt with it this past season.

[CraigF]

Anybody get a 18"?

[DannoBoone]

Well, Craig, I was all "hot & bothered" to get a .45 PacNor for
shooting sabotless, but realized that, before this fall, it would be
extremely difficult to get bullet sizing dies, arbor press, etc., to set
up for sabotless prior to deer seasons. Decided to follow dave d.'s
advice and just try saboted loads using the harvester blue sabots
with various .40 bullets.

Results?

I am now in no hurry whatsoever to go sabotless. You may want
to try the same prior to spending a lot of money. Richard's barrel
cooler helped in 80+ temps, but was really not needed in the low
70's and 60's with as few as 5 minutes from shot to reload.
Groups made my 7mm WSM jealous!

[CraigF]

Jan 6, 2009 21:29:38 GMT -5 DannoBoone said:

I am now in no hurry whatsoever to go sabotless. You may want
to try the same prior to spending a lot of money. Richard's barrel
cooler helped in 80+ temps, but was really not needed in the low
70's and 60's with as few as 5 minutes from shot to reload.
Groups made my 7mm WSM jealous!

I tried barrel coolers and long wait times, but I didn't get the consitancy that I want over 60 degrees. Also, I hunt in Texas and may have to take a 300 + yard shots in 80 degree weather.

I may get lucky and it shoots 45 sabots in that weather, but I want to be able to shoot more than 2 different kind of bullets too, to try out different loads.

[KerryB]

Too bad your poll won't let a guy make more than one vote! Several guys such as myself have multiple .45's with different twist rates and we can only rate one of them. The fact is that my .45's on average will shoot about twice as accurately saboted or sabotless, as my Savage .50 rifles that i have owned. That is just a generality for my rifles and i have had some really exceptionally good groups as well as bad groups out of my .45's and my .50 Savage, but overall the .45's shine!

[CraigF]

Kerry,
Your right, as always, I would change it but I don't know how.

[bigmoose]

I don't know the twist, since Rick made the rifle, but this I know shooting sabotless, no waiting between shots, it will shot one hole groups, Thats a resized Barnes 290gr. FB TMZ, 53 gr. of H4198. and WW wad. I know it makes no sense, but it will out shoot any center fire rifle I have owned. And at my age, I make no claim, at being any kind of special marksmen, what I have is a very special rifle..........An RB Special

[CraigF]

Jan 7, 2009 15:37:46 GMT -5 bigmoose said:

I don't know the twist, since Rick made the rifle, but this I know shooting sabotless, no waiting between shots, it will shot one hole groups, Thats a resized Barnes 290gr. FB TMZ, 53 gr. of H4198. and WW wad. I know it makes no sense, but it will out shoot any center fire rifle I have owned. And at my age, I make no claim, at being any kind of special marksmen, what I have is a very special rifle..........An RB Special

Anybody know what twist rate RB uses?

[dave d.]

Jan 7, 2009 15:58:12 GMT -5 CraigF said:

Jan 7, 2009 15:37:46 GMT -5 bigmoose said:

I don't know the twist, since Rick made the rifle, but this I know shooting sabotless, no waiting between shots, it will shot one hole groups, Thats a resized Barnes 290gr. FB TMZ, 53 gr. of H4198. and WW wad. I know it makes no sense, but it will out shoot any center fire rifle I have owned. And at my age, I make no claim, at being any kind of special marksmen, what I have is a very special rifle..........An RB Special

Anybody know what twist rate RB uses?

:)craig last time i checked 22.

[hillbill]

Bigmoose, what size die are you using on the TEZ barnes and what kind of speed are you getting.
I ordered a 28" barrel in hopes of gaining 60-100 fps with any given load.

I really like the barnes bullets if I can make them shoot, they are stone cold killers.

thanks,Bill

[bigmoose]

hillbill,
I use resizing die from Lee, it produces a 449.5 bullet, { I use an arbor press} than knurl it to .450.5, which fits my barrel, that was lapped to that size.
Your barrel will be different, but resizing is simple, the die and two files are needed.
Good Luck,
PS, IMO a tight fit is the best, if you are off .5, chances are the rifle will misfirer, at least in my experience.
It is great fun to load and shoot, as fast as you wish, it is not till 25 or more shoots, you need to cool the barrel

[RBinAR]

Jan 7, 2009 15:37:46 GMT -5 bigmoose said:

I don't know the twist, since Rick made the rifle, but this I know shooting sabotless, no waiting between shots, it will shot one hole groups, Thats a resized Barnes 290gr. FB TMZ, 53 gr. of H4198. and WW wad. I know it makes no sense, but it will out shoot any center fire rifle I have owned. And at my age, I make no claim, at being any kind of special marksmen, what I have is a very special rifle..........An RB Special

All my barrels are 1 in 22 so far in 45 caliber. In .408 I use the the 6 groove 1 in 16.

[rangeball]

Jan 6, 2009 21:29:38 GMT -5 DannoBoone said:

Decided to follow dave d.'s
advice and just try saboted loads using the harvester blue sabots
with various .40 bullets.

Results?

I am now in no hurry whatsoever to go sabotless.

Danno, I assume these are .50 sabots for the .40 bullets? Where did you get them? I looked on Harvester's website and they don't list them.

What load, bullet and fps were you getting?

Thanks

[rexxer]

rangeball

Light blue sabots are havesters .45-.40. They are made in the high pressure or crushed rib which are both light blue. Most all loads that are talked about using the light blue harvesters are the Non-crushed rib!

[rangeball]

Thanks. I was thinking from Danno's post maybe he skipped the pacnor and just shot 40s successfully in his 50, but now read other posts that made it more clear.

I was hoping he found success with the harvester 50/40 CR-

www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=45&category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

I've sent them an email to see if they've gotten any feedback on how they stand up to smokeless speeds up to 2800 fps.