.45 14 twist vs. 22 twist

[dave d.]

:)well guy's as you can tell i'm having a blast shooting these .45's.i did alittle back to back comparision today at the range and i'm impessed with both.the conditions were 40 degrees with a 5 to 10 mph headwind to start and by the time i shot my last group it was around 45 degrees with a 15 mph headwind.here's how they faired:







this group i called a pull and to confirm i shot a 4th shot.



the top groups were all 100yrds.here are the 200yrd groups.


here are the guns in the test.rem 22twist,sav 14 twist.



here's i few thing's that i have learn about shooting the .45's.one is between the three twist's i have(28,22,edge's 14)they like alot of the same loads.also it seem's like they really like a speed range between 2650 to 2700fps with the sst and barnes.i think that the twist rate is not a big factor but i also think that the smoothness of this shilen 14 twist is also a big factor in it's ability to shoot these saboted bullets.did not have time to shoot sabotless but that will happen next week.sorry for the long post.
ooh one last thing to mention none of these loads were shot with a wad.all my groups have reduced without them and i don't think i will be using them with saboted .40 cal bullet's anymore.

[edge]

Thanks for the pictures.

With the exception of the Barnes bullet the horizontal dispersion of the 14 twist is very small. Even at 200 yards it looks like about it is well under 1 inch. Good shooting, I am impressed, perhaps I need to rethink regular sabots for general shooting

edge.

[DW]

Dave, thanks for the report. Looks like you will have no trouble tuning your 14 twist #1 once you get it back, good to know all 3 rifles like a similar speed, hope mine and Kerrys like the loads you have been experimenting with as much as yours. Could you refresh my memory on the vent openings on your 22 and 28 twist .45's? I want to thank you for all the effort and expense you have went to educating and informing the rest of us. Also like to thank Edge for being so kind to let you borrow that sweet shooting rig and show what is possible with that fast of a twist. Again, great shooting and thanks.

[dave d.]

:)edge thank's for pointing out the spread thing i didn't see it.what does this mean when you basically just have a vertical spread?


:)dw thank's for your thank's ;D.i believe my 28 twist is .031 and my 22 twist is .033.

[KerryB]

Dave,
I did a little target shooting myself today since it was so pretty out. I took off my hunting scope and clamped on a 24x target scope with Warne QR rings. I had a box of 100 250gr XTP's and some MMP short black sabots that i had never tried so i decided to burn a few of them. I have a couple of cans of 4759 so i got one of those and loaded up a 44 grain load. I fired the first shot and then adjusted the scope a little to get down into the center of the target a little better. The following photo shows the next 3 shots that i fired. I didn't even get out my benchrest or bags and had just grabbed a rolled up quilt and a pillow off of the sofa to shoot off of. I tried 42gr, 43gr, 45gr, and 43.5gr of powder and they all shot good, but the first group with 44 ended up being the best. If only my .45 conversion will shoot that well when i get it back! Kerry

[edge]

Vertical spread is generally velocity variation, but with a muzzle heavy rifle it could be rest position or a Tupperware stock ;D

edge.

[KerryB]

Forgot to mention, that target was at 105 laser ranged yards.

[DW]

kerrybraswell said:

Dave,
I did a little target shooting myself today since it was so pretty out. I took off my hunting scope and clamped on a 24x target scope with Warne QR rings. I had a box of 100 250gr XTP's and some MMP short black sabots that i had never tried so i decided to burn a few of them. I have a couple of cans of 4759 so i got one of those and loaded up a 44 grain load. I fired the first shot and then adjusted the scope a little to get down into the center of the target a little better. The following photo shows the next 3 shots that i fired. I didn't even get out my benchrest or bags and had just grabbed a rolled up quilt and a pillow off of the sofa to shoot off of. I tried 42gr, 43gr, 45gr, and 43.5gr of powder and they all shot good, but the first group with 44 ended up being the best. If only my .45 conversion will shoot that well when i get it back! Kerry

We can only hope. Nice shootin Tex. ;D

[dave d.]

:)thank's edge i kinda thought it was a pressure issue.


:)kerry nice shooting there.we can only hope our conversion's will shoot that well .

[KerryB]

If only i shot that good every time! Tomorrow i might try again just to see what that same load will do. Had about a 10mph tail wind and the sun glaring off of the front of the scope today. I wouldn't mind cloudy and calm tomorrow to be sure. Man, i can't wait to get the .45 back so i can start testing it. You are sure putting me in the mood Dave! I feel a lot more comfortable seeing you prove that the twist is not as critical as we thought when we started on this adventure. Thanks for all you've done! KerryB

[SW]

:)Kerry/Dave,
Thanks for sharing your info. Still don't have the 40 yet. Who's afraid of the big bad twist -- anymore?! Not surprising Dave the results you've gotten - my fast twist 6PPCs, 22-250AK IMP, and 223 all shoot well with a variety of bullets and shoot well fast also. We just need twist to be fast enough and likely won't get it too fast. IMO.
Dave shoot at 200 yds , aim at same point and increase powder a sm amt each shot(like 0.2g-0.4g) and get a vertical line of shots over a 20 shot string or more. Start this shot string with the weakest load considered and go to as high as you are willing. Where ever the cluster of closest impacts are, take the center load and work with it. It will likely have the least sensitivity and will produce the best groups.

[dave d.]

:)thank's steve i read on another forum about the shot string thing for load developement with centerfire's i guess i will be giving it a try.goodluck with your .40.

[edge]

Dave,

I actually gave some reasons for a vertical string, but did not give you the credit for the very minimal horizontal dispersion. Clearly, at 200 yards the shooter did his job to an amazing degree, but either the stock or the load needs tweaking.

CURES for VERTICAL STRINGING
www.6mmbr.com/verticaltips.html

edge.

PS Dave could you measure the 200 yards target for me. Measuring off of my monitor it looks like 5/8 - 11/16 horizontal. thanks.

[dave d.]

:)bud the horizontal spread is 5/16" to 3/8" on that 200 yrd group.if you take out the barnes group the worst horizontal spread with the sst's was 5/8".i'm pretty impressed with that.



ok guy's who won the battle.the mighty 22 or the newcomer 14.take a look at the targets and make your vote.thank's

[edge]

drd said:

ok guy's who won the battle. SNIP

WE all did ;D
Thanks for shooting