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Post by SW on Jul 5, 2004 17:16:37 GMT -5
:)I've read with interest the coments and feelings about the new ventliners. I think that the original vent liner didn't have enough fire to light adequately the powders that seem more ideal for the 10-ML-2(V V-120,130, H-322 etc) and so a duplex was used to get a little hotter ignition of those powders. Seems like the 3 hole ventliner should do just that and eliminate the need for duplex. Note: I'm aware that this" need " is in question so let's don't go into this again - at least here. As the new owner of a rather large supply of blemished 200 Shockwaves, I will be working with 1-hole and duplex loads for this bullet and also the 3-hole loads as well. Any advice you have to give will be appreciated. I'll post findings as they occur.
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Post by dave d. on Jul 5, 2004 17:25:55 GMT -5
:)sw,myself and rb have tried it.i tried 65gr's of 4198 could not get any higher without sabot failure.this was good for 1 1/2" and 2450fps.goodluck
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Post by RBinAR on Jul 5, 2004 18:22:44 GMT -5
:)sw,myself and rb have tried it.i tried 65gr's of 4198 could not get any higher without sabot failure.this was good for 1 1/2" and 2450fps.goodluck I'm was going to post new information about the 200 grain SST/Shockwave this day but sw beat me to it so I'm going to post it here This image is a method to reinforce the soft .50/.40 blue sabot. If you look carefully one can see the sabot to the right has an aluminium washers in the bottom. I've come up with way to undercut the bottom of the sabot so that an aluminium washer can be snapped into the sabot base to spread the load forces around a bigger footprint. The rest of the image shows the seperate washer and sabot and a target I've shot with 75 grain charges of N120. As seen by the target accuracy is very good. Also speed is beyond 2650fps. I have to credit EDGE for giving me this idea for he sent me the washers not to develope for the 200 grain SST but to finish the testing on the .358 caliber spirepoint. They weren't needed on the .358 bullet except by chance the inserts I was using were a bit undersized and rather than throw the lot away we shot them with a false bottom. When I was finished shoting the the .358 caliber bullet I had just a few washers he'd provided left so I decided to try this. It went so well I got some more and developed some loads. The advantages over glueing a sabot together are obvious. The washer weighs 3 grains. The MMP sub-base and the glue to bond it weigh almost 20 grains. When you are trying to shoot a light weight bullet an extra 17 to 19 grains of weight is directly opposed to the purpose. The sabot is also stronger for the forces trying to drill the bullet are now opposing themselves. This method is more efficient by a noticable amount. It is also very simple and anyone can have access to it. I will either make the sabots for you or if you like I can provide a small tool with instructions so anyone can undercut his own. So for the first time a resilient sabot is available to shoot light weight bullets to anyone who wants to try it. I'm sure some might think of some issues pro and con. I've done some homework to try and anticipate those but if they are in your mind just bring them up here and we'll discuss whatever is of interest.  |
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Post by simonkenton on Jul 5, 2004 19:21:45 GMT -5
Well I am glad to see the inventive work of y'all Savage boys over here.
I bought a pack of 200 Shockwaves a week ago and got to witness sabots exploding in front of my eyes. The bullet hit ten feet right and ten feet low.
That is d**n interesting about the washer, I might buy your tool. But, I am getting in a pack of sub bases in a few days, I will try them first.
Yall keep up the good work we are fortunate to have hard working inventive minds working on this rifle because it is a finicky beast.
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Post by bubba on Jul 5, 2004 20:06:57 GMT -5
RB
Man are those steel washers or AL or what ?
I would be real concerned about one of those contacting the rifling in my barrel.........
call me paranoid, but tell me more!
-bubba
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Post by dave d. on Jul 5, 2004 20:37:39 GMT -5
:)rb,excellent work i guess this is going to solve all of our problems with this bullet.nice group.
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Post by edge on Jul 5, 2004 21:30:57 GMT -5
The washers are aluminum, and they are 0.43 in diameter! In steel, they weigh approx. 12 grains!!
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Post by edge on Jul 5, 2004 21:43:54 GMT -5
RB Man are those steel washers or AL or what ? I would be real concerned about one of those contacting the rifling in my barrel......... call me paranoid, but tell me more! -bubba I know that steel seems like a no-no, but here is a link to an article by Dan Lilja on 50 cal bullet material. www.riflebarrels.com/articles/50calibre/material_50cal_bullets.htmThe first bullet on the left is ALL steel!! This is from a 50 cal with 12,000+ ft/lbs at the muzzle! edge. |
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Post by edge on Jul 5, 2004 21:51:17 GMT -5
SNIP But, I am getting in a pack of sub bases in a few days, I will try them first.SNIP . I think that you are missing the problem! The bullet, from the shooters perspective is trying to move BACKWARDS THROUGH the sabot! The washer is under the bullet, and effectively spreads the force over a larger area. The sub base does very little in this respect. I am NOT directing this at you, but more to everyone new to the Savage. Master the 45 caliber bullets in all temperature situations, THEN and ONLY then expand your knowledge base!! IMO. edge. |
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Post by joe B on Jul 5, 2004 22:27:04 GMT -5
R B was wondering if you were using the 3 hole or 1 hole liner when you shot the 200 grain???
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Post by RBinAR on Jul 5, 2004 22:49:13 GMT -5
The washers are aluminum, and they are 0.43 in diameter! In steel, they weigh approx. 12 grains!! EDGE 12 grains is too heavy if at all possible I'd encourage all to stick to aluminium. I think it is actually a 7/16 flat washer with a .2" center. I'd agree with the appraisal that they represent no possible danger as a barrel eater. |
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Post by DannoBoone on Jul 5, 2004 23:31:28 GMT -5
RB, I am interested in the tool you have made. What do
you want for them?
Do you get the washers from a regular hardware store?
And, since you stated you believe they are 7/16", are they
sold by a certain number (as in #10 for an eigth inch screw)?
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Post by edge on Jul 6, 2004 0:19:57 GMT -5
EDGE 12 grains is too heavy SNIP. RB, Bubba asked if they were steel or aluminum, and I agree that you WANT to use aluminum. You posted that they weigh 3 grains. I was only pointing out that IF they had been steel that they would weigh 12 grains. edge. |
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Post by RBstwin on Jul 6, 2004 2:10:37 GMT -5
R B was wondering if you were using the 3 hole or 1 hole liner when you shot the 200 grain??? joe, I was using the three hole liner and I use the three hole liner almost exclusively now. The single hole liner is not near hot enough for lightweight bullets unless you use fast powders and I stay away from those if I can. |
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Post by simonkenton on Jul 6, 2004 7:26:15 GMT -5
edge--Three or four guys on this forum have successfully shot the 200 Shockwave by using the sub base.
When my sub bases come in tomorrow I think I will go ahead and glue some on to the 200 Shockwave sabot and give it a try with 44 gr of 5744. Doesn't seem too difficult.
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Post by RBinAR on Jul 6, 2004 12:48:49 GMT -5
"I think that you are missing the problem!
The bullet, from the shooters perspective is trying to move BACKWARDS THROUGH the sabot!"
"Three or four guys on this forum have successfully shot the 200 Shockwave by using the sub base.
When my sub bases come in tomorrow I think I will go ahead and glue some on to the 200 Shockwave"
You are both right: The problem is drilling, however for whatever reason the MMP sub-base will provide some back support to the sabot (better when glued) and allow greater speed with accuracy than a bare sabot.
This is not the best solution to the problem for as the speed rises the sub-base itself can be forced back but for speeds to 2600fps it works.
The new method with the washer is better in that it uses the drilling force to advantage shooting just like a .451 caliber model. This method would suffer no more limitations than the larger sabot since it is basically the same except for color.
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Post by edge on Jul 6, 2004 13:08:36 GMT -5
RB, you are quite right, (darn)!
I seem to tend to arseume:-) that someone shooting a 200 grain bullet is going for "high velocity", which in my view is MUCH above the normal range.
For clarification, I tend to think of 2300fps for a 300grain bullet, 2500fps for a 250grain, and 2700fps for lightweights as moving to the area of "High Velocity"
I am sure that these may seem high to some and low to others :-) But what the heck, their mine and I'm sticking with them!
edge.
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