Bedding,etc

[SW]

I am not a gunsmith nor am I very knowledgable about accuratizing rifles except what I've read from such books as Accuratizing The Factory Rifle, etc. . I've had 3 factory rifles completely gone over by 2 different accuracy gunsmiths(Fred M. and Kevin Rayhill) and 1 Striker pistol. In every case accuracy improved. When I got my original ML-10, I thought what a flimsy stock, 1 of the pillars didn't bed well either. Due to a barrel problem, it was replaced by Sav with a 10-ML2, equally flimsy. My son got a blued, plastic stocked ML-2 which he is happy with as is and I use it as a control. I had mine restocked, 2 new pillars and the bolt retaining bold modified, heavier recoil lug, Edward's recoil reducer, Sims recoil pad,good scope and steel bases and quality mounts, firelapped barrel, and SSS competition trigger. My groups were cut by appx 1/2 esp horz component, now I just work on loads to reduce the vertical. I just noticed Mike3132 mentioned his bedded rifle's accuracy improved also. Apparently Mike 3132 and I have had good success but we are a small sample size. How about the rest of you? What have been your experiences with additional work done on your rifle or the Henry Ball rifle vs stock rifles? Probably a number of people who read this board will be interested.

[dave d.]

:)sw,i bedded my ml2 accu trigger and i can't tell you for sure it help in accuracy because i did it before i developed any loads,but it firmed up the stock and the balance of the gun is better too.

[RBinAR]

I think almost any rifle can be improved on by the correct adjustment. The question is how much will that be. The second question is how much are you willing to pay for it. A lot of times I see people spend the farm on a rifle and get a 1/2" improvemwnt at 100 yards and 3/4" at 200 and none at 300 because they just aren't good enough shots to use the extra accuracy at distance.

The opposite of this is the good shot who doesn't give a lick about 1/2" at 100 or 3/4" at 200 because he generally won't miss at that range anyway but would love a 2 to 3" improvement at 300+ yards.

I don't say that to judge shooters, just to say you should have an idea of what's accurate for you. Armed with that knowledge then you can have some goal toward the accuracy you're trying to reach and if it's worth the effort to get there.

That being said I didn't come up with these ideas in a room filled with books, though I like books. Some of the rifles I own have been worked on. Some might say worked on too much.

So bed if you like it generally does not hurt anything. But I think the best plan is to try to achieve a certain accuracy by average and stick to it. Most I've seen don't even go this far. they shoot one good group and that's it. They figure the accuracy to be what they shot. It is best to consider accuracy as an average of at least 10 groups and they should be shot on at least 5 different days. If you can achieve 1 1/2" accuray under that criterion then your rifle is accurate indeed.

[edge]

RB,
The only thing that I would like to add is the psychological effect from bedding your rifle. With my Savage, the recoil lug made little or no contact, and it was pretty evident that the metal on the lugs was "scrubbed" from a back and forth action. If I put my rifle onto a shooting machine before and after the bedding job there may not be a difference, but in my mind ( which may be a sick place to go ), I "feel" more confident, and that makes it all worthwhile to ME!

edge.

[simonkenton]

I have the stock rifle. blued with plastic stock. I havn't had any work done on the rifle, it has the old time Savage trigger not the Accutrigger. I did add a pound of lead to the stock and a recoil pad to help with recoil.
My rifle will shoot 1 1/2 inch groups all day with the 250 xtp.
It will go under 2 inches with the SST but likes the XTP better.

[308XP]

This is an interesting subject to me as I feel that my 10ML-II needs bedding. I keep reading about everyones 1 1/2 inch groups but mine are not there yet. A lot of 3 inch groups and a very rare 2 inch group. Personally, as I study the action and the stock I think[?] that there is not really good contact in the recoil lug area and I'm not so sure it's sitting on the flat pillars evenly. When the front action screw is tight, the tang is slightly floating until the rear action screw is pulled down snug. I know it doesn't sit in the sock straight as the barrel channel gap is very uneven. Any thoughts or similar experiences?

308XP

[savageman]

There is good reason to bed your action if getting it back in the same place each time it is removed is a goal. The recoil lug should make even contact and the increased stiffening effect from filling the blind magazine hole and bedding around the pillars is a good thing. My Savage came with the heavy recoil lug and with a good bedding job you will have less action movement when loosening the screw to release the bolt. Kevin or Fred are both excellant with Savages and can do the job. Look at the barrel crown and make sure its good....some are rather rough out of the box. Bores also seem to vary quite a bit from gun to gun. Make sure the barrel fits the channel in the middle and bedding helps assure the same floating position every time. ALWAYS tighten the rear action screw first ! ALWAYS check the mount screws to make sure there is none bottoming out......this can cause groups to move all over as the gun heats.

Savageman

[simonkenton]

308xp--It sounds like you are tightening the front action screw before you tighten the rear action screw. If so, this is a boo-boo.
Hang in there Savage brother, this gun is finicky but you will get your 1 1/2 inch groups once you get these little problems ironed out.

[308XP]

simonkenton..That's exactly what I'm doing. I've always tightened the lug screw first then the tang/rear screw last. Obviously that ain't right on the 10ML-II. I'm going to get the Moto tool humming this afternoon and bed those 2 pillars and recoil lug. Now where's my 2 pound hammer??

308XP

[SW]

308XP,
On my accuratized ML, virtually all std loads shoot below 1 1/2" now. Best accuracy is obtained with sabot only, not sub base. This is with 250g bullets(haven't tried 300g bullets lately but they were very accurate before and likely still are) : the 200g bullets are a little more difficult for me( still have only single hole ventliner). I have a few <1" loads for the 200, but it took work. So many factors : plastic build-up, vent liner wear, using wonder wads/equivalent, seating pressure, cooling of barrel, shifting of barrel in stock, wind and your compensating for it - I use 4 wind flags to 100 and 6 for 200 - don't think that this doesn't reduce gp size, excellent rests, scope mounting and quality of the insides of your scope, your bench technique(hold on to this thing and use a sissy bag of some sort. Single ventliner with 250SST/XTP and 44or 44.5 V V110 gives a great accuracy load with decent velocity 2450+'/sec.

[308XP]

SW...Thanks for the advice. I pretty much do all that now. My range is behind the house and has a solid bench, sissy pads, chronograph, seldom any wind, Leupold scope, etc., etc.. I started yesterday to bed the action on the 10ML-II. Hopefully I'll get it finished today and let it sit about a week to fully cure. I found a good bit of binding in the action as I messed with the action screws. The problem is that the pillars are of different heights. Then depending on which screw is tightened first, things move and twist. Hopefully I'm about to change all that. Will it help? We'll see. If it doesn't I'll know that ain't the problem. I want to try some N110 or SR4759 but I'm having trouble finding it within a reasonable driving distance.

308XP

[SW]

308,
If you irdered 2# of 110 and 120 and paid the haz mat fee it would likely be only slightly more than what you'd pay off the shelf. 4759 may be getting hard to find.