wilded
Spike
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Posts: 38
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Post by wilded on Jul 13, 2004 8:41:25 GMT -5
I have decided on the precision rifle 260 grain dead center bullet and sabot with the federal 209A primer. What would be the best smokeless powder to test in my savage with this bullet primer combo? :PThanks, ET
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Post by edge on Jul 13, 2004 8:58:15 GMT -5
IMO, since you have come up with this bullet from "SOME" source, they also most likely showed a load that impressed you! I would try THAT load. Most likely 5744, if I had to guess :-)
edge.
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wilded
Spike
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Post by wilded on Jul 13, 2004 9:00:53 GMT -5
You are correct sir. I like all I saw except the availability of the powder and the prices to ship with haz mat. I was hoping that someone has developed somthing not in the manual that is a better load for this bullet. If I didn't believe that this board has a lot more expertise and experience with this gun I would not post the questions. If it had to do with trad guns or shotguns I would not ask your opinion. Best wishes, Thanks, ET
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Post by edge on Jul 13, 2004 9:29:09 GMT -5
wilded,
Don't take my suggestion wrong! You have selected a bullet that requires some care, IMO. Those that use it mainly use it at relatively low velocity, for the Savage, and use a very forgiving powder. 5744 seems to be a favorite.
IMO, I think that most poeple on this board would NOT have suggested this bullet as a starting point. NOT because there is anything wrong with the bullet, only that there may be a velocity limitation with pure lead bullets, and Boat Tailed bullets.
edge.
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wilded
Spike
Make time for the important things in life
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Post by wilded on Jul 13, 2004 9:37:54 GMT -5
Thanks, it was recommended to me for high speed and flatness. I may have been mislead. I was also going to test the hornady 250 SST. I am looking for a 200 yard bullet that shoots fast and flat. Any recommendations to test would be appreciated. I settled on the primer because I have 5000 of them in my reloading room. I am still open on the rest. ET
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Post by edge on Jul 13, 2004 10:05:24 GMT -5
SNIP I may have been mislead. I was also going to test the hornady 250 SST. I am looking for a 200 yard bullet that shoots fast and flat. SNIP You were not mislead, Fast and Flat are relative terms :-) The 260 Dead Center is certainly a 200 yard bullet even at a loaded down velocity of 1900-2100 fps. IMO, the SST will be much more fexible with powders and velocities. If you have not visited Randy Wakemans website or the Precision Rifle website, then I suggest that you check them both out for the Dead Center loads. The 45 cal. XTP and SST with MMP sabots will work with many different powders, and are fairly cheap to practice with. edge. |
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Post by DannoBoone on Jul 13, 2004 11:51:34 GMT -5
When one has a bad experience with any certain product,
it's easy to have a negative opinion of it. Guess if I had a
nice buck in the sights and the rifle didn't go "bang" because
of some malfunction of a PR bullet/sabot, there would be
little need in my mind to use them any more. Right, edge?
On the other hand, I've had great success with both the
PR DC's and QT's in an Encore. At broadside, every shot
was instant knock down. I already have, and will be testing
the 260gr DC's in the Savage. Per Cecil Epp's suggestion on
his site, they all will have the sub-base installed. Would
not the "drilling" problem be even worse on these boat tails
than the .40 200gr SST? Being bevelled, it's hard to mich,
but it seems to be around .375. Anyone know of a gas
check size that would both go into the PR sabot, yet not
clamp onto the end of the bullet during acceleration??
wilded - If you are using the 3-hole liner, 5744 does not
work well with the PR DC's. Seems as no one is now
experimenting with the DC's, 3-holer, and slower burning
powders. After finding a suitable size gas check, I'm
going to try N120 and possibly Reloader #7 with the
260's. But give both the SST's and DC's a try in your
rifle. There's no telling what ya may come up with. ;D
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Post by grouse on Jul 13, 2004 11:52:57 GMT -5
Thanks, it was recommended to me for high speed and flatness. I may have been mislead. I was also going to test the hornady 250 SST. I am looking for a 200 yard bullet that shoots fast and flat. Any recommendations to test would be appreciated. I settled on the primer because I have 5000 of them in my reloading room. I am still open on the rest. ET You made a very fine choice. The 260 DeadCenter is my favorite load for the Savage. If you choose a Jacketed bullet the 250grn Shockwave is very good also. 5744 is my choice powder. |
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Post by edge on Jul 13, 2004 12:14:46 GMT -5
SNIP Guess if I had a nice buck in the sights and the rifle didn't go "bang" because of some malfunction of a PR bullet/sabot, there would be little need in my mind to use them any more. Right, edge? SNIP I certainly don't think of the failure to go "bang" as a malfunction of the PR bullet/sabot, but rather MY choice of components! I was using Lil'Gun and shooting at 2300fps. Lil'Gun is NOT a good choice for this bullet/sabot combination. I AM suggesting that Wilded go to Randys site AND Precision Rifle and duplicate their loads, afterall I would say that they have much more experience shooting these with smokeless than anyone else here. Believe it or not I thought that I was being helpful :-) edge. |
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wilded
Spike
Make time for the important things in life
Posts: 38
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Post by wilded on Jul 13, 2004 13:50:33 GMT -5
Thanks to all. I am very new to smokeless muzzleloading. ET ;D
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Post by 1SHOT1KILL on Jul 13, 2004 16:09:05 GMT -5
Wilded,
Edge is right about the 260gr DC and 5744 powder. You can not push these pure lead bullet over 2,200 FPS and some between 2,000-2,100 FPS seems to deliver optimum accuracy. But, even at 2,000 FPS the 260gr DC zeroed 1.5" high, is only approximately 5" low at 200yds and retains 1,600+ FPE. That's flat enough and packing enough thump, to drop any deer in North America.
You can shoot 45 grains (or 3.4cc Lee Dipper) of 5744 without having to use a sub-base. This load is the "test" load I use in the Henry Ball Ltd Edition and even thought these test are conducted at 50yds with the factory open sights, it has yet to shoot a group over 1.5" at 50yds with open sights (if I do my part). Most groups have averaged between 3/4" and 1" at 50yds. That probably is not real great by some's standards, but I beleive that if I can do that with a "fixed" load at 50yds with open sights, then a shooter ought to be able to duplicate that same 3/4" to 1" group, with that same load at 100yds using a scope of 3-9x or so. Anyway that load has shoot good in many 10ML-II HB Ltd Ed.'s, and it looks like a good starting load to establish whether the rifle will be a shooter or not.
Like others have said you may want to try 250gr SST's also and VV N110 or IMR-4759.
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Post by rdtimmjr on Jul 13, 2004 17:36:23 GMT -5
oneshot, you're not in on the boycott of IMR powders led by RandyWakeman?  |
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Post by edge on Jul 13, 2004 19:53:44 GMT -5
SNIP Yea it will, but he said fast and flat. The 250 SST at 2600 is 2" high @ 100 is only 1.8" low at 200. That is still flatter and very easy to setup. Most of you know that I prefer Jacketed Rifle Bullets, but for those that want to shoot lead, and don't want recoil, then go for it! The 260 grain @ 2100 fps has 2500 ft/lbs and the 250SST @ 2600 has 3700 ft/lbs That will result in a large increase in recoil. edge. |
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Post by SW on Jul 13, 2004 22:22:04 GMT -5
Wilded,
I wouldn't make a decision on anything until I tested it. I do think 260PR/45g 5744 is likely a great choice with its extremely hi BC and hi level of accuracy. It is neary as flat shooting as the 250SST(what I use) shot at 350"/sec fasterand retains its energy much better than the 250SST. The 200Shockwave/SST shot at 2650 is something you should consider also and it is flat, especially to 200yds. Try all 3 bullets and various loads if practical for your situation. I work up ballistics to 300 yds and the 200SST will be my choice if everything works out.
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wilded
Spike
Make time for the important things in life
Posts: 38
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Post by wilded on Jul 13, 2004 22:55:44 GMT -5
I have order enough 250 SST and 260 dead centers to test. Is the 200 grain enough bullet for elk? I have killed them very dead with a 140 .264 mag but they were moving a little faster! Thanks, ET
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Post by SW on Jul 13, 2004 23:02:44 GMT -5
Wilded,
I think the 200 would be inferior to the 250SST which I think would be very adequate but inferior to the 300SST which would in my opinion be very good for elk. I'm a bow hunter with minimal experience with bullets/large game. I think Edge would have a very valid opinion on this subject as would RB and some others. I suspect there is a good 300-300+g 458 bullet out there that would be better than any mentioned so far. I think you need to test beyond 5744 as good as it is.
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Post by RBinAR on Jul 14, 2004 8:54:11 GMT -5
If you want a powder that will go slow (as with the DCs) or fast (with the SST) then I suggest VV N120. It is pretty good fast with the three hole vent liner and pretty good slow with the single.
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Post by 1SHOT1KILL on Jul 14, 2004 9:23:59 GMT -5
MarkA, yes he did, but Wilded was originally inquiring and referring to the PR 260gr DC bullet. While they do shoot fairly flat (for only 2,100 FPS), you just can't push them real fast. Yes, a 250gr at 2,600 FPS is faster and flatter (DUHH). I am glad that even you could figure that one out. There's hope yet.
rdtimmjr, I shoot IMR powders almost exclusively in my centerfires and wildcats. In all my custom built smokeless muzzleloaders, my 10ML's, and my 10ML-II's, I hunt with only two powders, AA 5744 and Lil Gun. I have shot other powders, and will continue to do so, experimenting with new loads and such, but when muzzleloading season comes around, I'll be shooting one of these 2 powders only.
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wilded
Spike
Make time for the important things in life
Posts: 38
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Post by wilded on Jul 14, 2004 13:58:14 GMT -5
Where can I find the Lil gun loads. Thanks, ET  |
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