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Post by Rifleman on Jul 14, 2004 0:03:24 GMT -5
Ok fellas in the last week or two we have covered bullets, bc's,sd's, powders,primers,sabots, rings, bases, bedding, etc. I have appreciated all the input and opinions. I can say I have learned alot and have some things to try out. But I have a question I would like to pose. Where do we go from here ? To be more specific I am asking you guys to polish up your crystal balls ( not too much )) and take a stab at what progress do you see in the immediate future and further out as well. For example: In the next ten years or so I would venture to say that scope makers will incorporate laser range finders in their scopes like the one made by swarvorski. But they will be more affordable then the 6 grand that swarvorski charges, albeit of a lot less quality. Also I would say we will see better sabots more suitable to faster twist barrels. Also do you think any of the other major gun makers will ever get off their duffs and make a smokeless muzzleloader? why or why not ? anyway this could be an interesting thread, What do you guys think? Rifleman- Still refusing to live in the box. ;D
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Post by rdtimmjr on Jul 14, 2004 5:34:43 GMT -5
My Ruger No1 in Winchester .458 mag shoots a 500 grain bullet 2250 fps into the same hole at 100yds. I think adapting this quality and simple design or one similar to smokeless muzzleloading would be a big winner and the next logical progression for another company to jump in.(there's another one!) I think the key to success would of course be safety but also high quality at a reasonable price. Ruger and Remington both have flopped with BP muzzleloaders, just my opinion, it seems to me that either or both could redeem their reputation and also fill their coffers by competing directly with Savage on the cutting edge and doing an end-run around TC and Knight.
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Post by Rifleman on Jul 14, 2004 5:48:45 GMT -5
I totally agree on all points ! Rifleman
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Post by SW on Jul 14, 2004 7:53:49 GMT -5
Go back thru all posts on this board, read all of Toby's site and see what Edge(his bullet /sabot), RB, Toby,and others are doing and you'll get an idea of the near future. Personally, I think the 45cal barrel with excellent sabots may be there.Some of the posters have custom 45 cal barrels retrofited to the 10-ML. True long range,rifle bullets with ex BCs of a wt that can be easily made to go really fast are sub 40 cal which require sabots not commercially available but being used by some on this board. It'll just be a continually evolving process. In the mean time get a good load and let it be your hunting load, site-in for it , get your drops at various ranges, and continue to test any and everything else you want but you are always set-up with your hunting load. Occasionally you will vary your prefered load as you experiment. Until something proves better, I'll stay with 45g V V-110/250SST no sub base. I'm working on a 200SST load to replace it but it will have to prove itself 1st to be very consistent and mis-fire free.
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Post by RBinAR on Jul 14, 2004 8:35:12 GMT -5
8-)What do I think will happen next. I think I'll be at least partially wrong in my prediction, that's what. Despite that I'll risk a few comments.
At least one company is going to offer a .45 caliber conversion for the 10-ML. It will have the options of a third pillar and quick release bolt pin. It could very well be my company that does it but I'm not promising that.
I also think that sometime along the way in a year two or five a company should offer a smooth bore high performance muzzleloader that shoots smokeless and has fin stablized projectiles. Don't laugh, it's a very practical and accurate system. This might be left on the way side because it is very high tech, many shooters might suffer culture shock when faced with such advances.
Finally someone should improve on the 10-ML breech plug (someone in fact has) which is an inch too long. I at first thought it was this long for a good reason but Henry Ball told me that the only reason it is 1 7/8" long is that it had to be that long to approximate the length of action of the original 10-ML with primer module. The extra lenght is where the module would be.
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Post by Douglas Blair on Jul 14, 2004 8:53:44 GMT -5
Finally someone should improve on the 10-ML breech plug (someone in fact has) which is an inch too long. I at first thought it was this long for a good reason but Henry Ball told me that the only reason it is 1 7/8" long is that it had to be that long to approximate the length of action of the original 10-ML with primer module. The extra lenght is where the module would be. RB, what does that have to do with the Savage 10-II? Since the Savage 10-II is a different gun than the 10-I I don't understand why the breechplug would have to be 1 7/8 inches long. I figured the breechplug was as long as it is to simply add more threads so it would have a larger margin of safety.
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Post by edge on Jul 14, 2004 10:38:46 GMT -5
Doug, I'll take a stab at the breechplug question(I own a knife too) ! My guess is for manufacturing purposes, Savage was trying to keep the process as seemless as possible! In my sketch: the Bottom is the ML-I (from memory ); Center is the current ML-II; Top is what I envision RB is talking about. edge.
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Post by Predator II on Jul 14, 2004 21:38:49 GMT -5
I think we will see the smokeless muzzleloader evolve as more and more shooters use it. I think the .45 is a logical progression and would like to see a .40 caliber that was rifled to shoot .358 bullets in a good tough sabot. Probably the biggest strides will be made in sabot material and sub bases. Any of the major gun companies if they can make a profit will build smokeless guns. Demand increases supply. Bullets, powders, primers are in a constant state of change. I would like to see ventliners made of Inconel or Hastealloy, or lined with Stellite that would last for the life of the rifle. Or they could just make a breech plug with the optimum sized vent and do away with the ventliners. These could be set up and EDMed to the proper size vent. I would buy one.
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Post by DannoBoone on Jul 14, 2004 22:12:49 GMT -5
edge - I like your design better than all three of the above. Not only does your design get the powder closer to the primer as the top model would, yours provides a nice cup for duplex loads. ;D
About ready to start on mine, with a modification. It's taking a bit of searching to get the correct tools for that modification.
Would anyone be surprised if someone comes up with a complete replacement material for the weakest link, the sabots?
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Post by bubba on Jul 14, 2004 22:37:44 GMT -5
Can someone educate me as to why a patented wear out part (the vent liner) has to be used in this setup?
Is it unreasonable to assume that a simple breech plug would suffice without a vent liner? Will the breech plug then wear out as swiftly as a vent liner?
I can program an aircraft from takeoff to landing and provide taxi instructions for them, but I dont know squat about metals & machining & hardening.
-bubba
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