Max prb load ?

[Nimrod]

Hello To All My Smok Pole Brothers my request is...... what would be on average the max powder charge in a 1/48 54 cal rb b4 I start to strip the patches my Hawkens is a tack driver with 70 gr by volume of 3f Goex and am wanting to save s o m e powder by asking.... I am wanting to get a good stout Deer{while hunting deer I could stumble upon a hog a BIG hog} & Elk load I do not have a problem with getting a T/C 1/66 rb barrel to get the foot pounds required to do the job quickley if I have to. And what would be a stought or max load for a 1/66 barrel? they say you can get more velocity with a slower twist then with a 1/48 what might your sugestions be I am all eyes and ears

[Triple Se7en]

Quote:
....what would be on average the max powder charge in a 1/48 58 cal rb b4 I start to strip the patches


It all depends on what patch material you're using -- how thick it is -- what lube you're using -- how much you're using -- what powder you're using -- how long your barrel is -- what condition your lands & grooves are in -- how soft the lead is in some cases.

[roundball]

Nimrod said:

Hello To All My Smok Pole Brothers my request is...... what would be on average the max powder charge in a 1/48 54 cal rb b4 I start to strip the patches my Hawkens is a tack driver with 70 gr by volume of 3f Goex and am wanting to save s o m e powder by asking.... I am wanting to get a good stout Deer{while hunting deer I could stumble upon a hog a BIG hog} & Elk load I do not have a problem with getting a T/C 1/66 rb barrel to get the foot pounds required to do the job quickley if I have to. And what would be a stought or max load for a 1/66 barrel? they say you can get more velocity with a slower twist then with a 1/48 what might your sugestions be I am all eyes and ears

FYI...I personally ran side x side tests with my TC 1:66" and TC 1:48" barrels last summer...I ran these tests in sets of .45cal, .50cal, and .54cal barrels...one set of caliber barrels on each of three different Saturdays at my range, with everything else being precisely the same at the time of the tests....equipment, procedures, products, weather, lighting, shooter, etc, etc

My hunting loads are:
90grns Goex 3F (3F)
Oxyoke wonder wads
.018" TC prelubed pillow ticking
Hornady .440/.490/.530 balls

If you shuffled the targets together and handed them back to me I'd have to pause and study them to try and figure out which ones were made with the 1:66 vs the 1:48.

IMO, assuming proper components in good condition barrels, the notion that a patched ball will skip rifling is an old wives tale...like the old wives tale that 1:48" twists won't shoot round balls accuratey.

I bought round ball barrels because I had heard the old wives tale about 1:48's...now I know better and I didn't need to.

[WesTx]

I agree with Roundball. The bad rap the 1-48" twist got was due to the problems we old-farts had back in the 60's when the first repo muzzleloaders first started coming out. The Zouave rifle started it since the makers followed the original rifling which had been designed to fire Minie balls in the 1850's. The rifling is shallow with wide lands & grooves, actually only 3 of each. Unfortunately, this type rifling is the pits for patched round ball, no matter what the twist.

You must also remember that two guys named Hawken got real good results with the 1-48" twist when they cut the deep rifling in the bores. I've shot, and seen shot, several original Hawken rifles with as mcuh as 200 grains of FFg and they gave under 10" groups at 200 yards...not bad, huh? Don't think you have to worry unless you use a gun cut for Minies. Good luck.

[Triple Se7en]

Be honest now Roundball...... those "almost matching" groups with 90 grains Goex did not occur at 100 yards.

[roundball]

Triple said:

Be honest now Roundball...... those "almost matching" groups with 90 grains Goex did not occur at 100 yards.

Sorry to disappoint you...

100yds from the bench, 1+7/8" and 2+3/8" groups, .54cal x 1:48" standard barrel, 90grns Goex 3F, .58cal oxyoke wonderwad, .018" TC pillow ticking, Hornady .530's

THOUGHTS FOR THE DAY
Some folks think what they know about muzzleloading is all there is to know about muzzleloading.
Some even think their particular level of knowledge is a body of work representing a life's accomplishment.

Those kind of people sit around taking potshots at other people, but rarely make positive contributions...they typically just waste good people's time.

Those kind of people need to wake up and realize there's always somebody else coming along that does something just a little bit beyond their life's work, because those kind of people have stopped at a plateau, thinking they know it all, but they're really just stagnating...the world keeps marching right on by.

100yds.

[tg]

"..the world keeps marching right on by"

and so do the Lemmings....

[Savagefan]

:)Roundball,

Before I got bit by the sabot shootin' bug, I sure threw many thousands of round ball loads downrange...and I found the 1-in-48 inches twist bores to shoot very, very well with the soft lead spheres.

But, I also did experience a few times when the patch and ball did "skip" the rifling...but this usually occurred when I was loading a .010" under-sized ball with a thin .010" patch into a very shallow (.005" to .006") rifled bore.

In my opinion, the combination of ball diameter-patch thickness-and rifling depth play a more important role in round ball accuracy than whether the rifle has a turn-in-48 or in-66 inches rate of twist.

Toby Bridges

[Triple Se7en]

Roundball

I read 22 boards all the time. Your shot-groups with the equipment you use/compare to amaze me. Even though you are now only admitting doing this with your 54-caliber instead of all three... ie... 45-50-54, I sometimes scratch my head at the 'works" of your T/C rifles.... a manufacturer that I dearly love & own a fair share of.

You are one-of-a kind. I don't read this stuff - plus other stuff you commented on using T/C equipment from anyone else but you. You have an unusual set of T/C rifles.... that's for sure.

I have the right to say I don't believe you. My motive being you are a T/C employee.

Nuff said.... I'm done here!

[edge]

IMO, we should try to keep our posts on topic and just answer the question asked by Nimrod!

Believe or don't believe what fellow members post, ask your questions nicely and answer that way too and we will all avoid locked threads ;D

Thanks for your cooperation,

edge.

PS I don't think that anyone has intentionally gone over the line here, but I do see "Ten Toes" make that "Twenty Toes" hanging over the edge;D

[roundball]

Triple said:

Roundball

I read 22 boards all the time. Your shot-groups with the equipment you use/compare to amaze me. Even though you are now only admitting doing this with your 54-caliber instead of all three... ie... 45-50-54, I sometimes scratch my head at the 'works" of your T/C rifles.... a manufacturer that I dearly love & own a fair share of.

You are one-of-a kind. I don't read this stuff - plus other stuff you commented on using T/C equipment from anyone else but you. You have an unusual set of T/C rifles.... that's for sure.

I have the right to say I don't believe you. My motive being you are a T/C employee.

Nuff said.... I'm done here!

No need to run off...

Good results just takes study, attention, and practice no matter what firearm is being used...nothing magic about it...eyesight & sight picture with open sights at 100yds is a bigger issue than equipment & supplies, causing bigger groups than they do as well.

The best ways to shoot for group size I've found is using a tip from another shooter...fold a sheet of bright gaudy hot pink notebook paper into a big triangle and mount it on the target backing with the point down.

Then it's very easy to see and precisely set that point right on top of the front bead each and every time...it's the most precise, easy to see aiming point I've ever used at distances like that...give it a try

[roundball]

Savagefan said:

:)Roundball,

Before I got bit by the sabot shootin' bug, I sure threw many thousands of round ball loads downrange...and I found the 1-in-48 inches twist bores to shoot very, very well with the soft lead spheres.

But, I also did experience a few times when the patch and ball did "skip" the rifling...but this usually occurred when I was loading a .010" under-sized ball with a thin .010" patch into a very shallow (.005" to .006") rifled bore.

In my opinion, the combination of ball diameter-patch thickness-and rifling depth play a more important role in round ball accuracy than whether the rifle has a turn-in-48 or in-66 inches rate of twist.

Toby Bridges

Toby, I never experimented with real thin patches like you mentioned...I started with .015" cotton and settled on .018" pillow ticking...and in addition to the thicker, tighter patches, I'm convinced that using wonderwads also improve accuracy and tighten group size some more...I think you wrote about them

[roundball]

RIFLE TWIST QUIZ: Which bucks were taken with a 1:48" twist and which were taken with a 1:66" ?? ;D

[edge]

roundball said:

RIFLE TWIST QUIZ: Which bucks were taken with a 1:48" twist and which were taken with a 1:66" ?? ;D

SNIP

That is easy... but the ones taken with the ballpeen hammer are tough to figure. The claw hammers are pretty easy too. I have no idea on those taken with the "C" clamps ( and I probably don't want to know anyway cuz that is plain nutz ;D ) not to mention the oversize toilet paper roll....but I figure that is for the Bear hunting with the screw drivers;D


edge.

[tg]

I certainly would not question Rouindbvalls shooting reports, he spends a lot od time at the range and approaches his shooting with a dedication shared by few... I have even had some very good groups myself with the lowly smoothbores, once I even had a one shot group with my 12 bore flinter that was only 3/4 in. from one side of the hole to the other....