underhammer muzzleloaders

[getonit]

I been reading on another forum on the underhammer muzzloader - I know it is true the scarcity of information on the underhammers- I have had this one in my collection for many years- the odd part is it is marked from the Winchester Repeating Arms co. with a patent of 1879.... it has the double false muzzle for starting the bullets and has alot of nickle silver on it- its a caliber .32 and weight of 10.5 lbs not including the starter set...Ive been given lots of conflicting information on it from Winchester "experts", so I do what most of us do- ignore most of it ; ) - thought you guys would like to see it... Rick

[woodsrunner]

Very nice!! I'm not really a big fan of percussion guns, but that is a nice piece!

[MountainMan]

Wow! That is something else! Looks like a really fine piece of workmanship. I wouldn't mind owning one myself. Does it have a model number stamped on the barrel?

[getonit]

Mountainman- thats the only stamp- the Winchester repeating arms & pat Date....nothing else stamped on it at all- I like it because of the uniqueness- I dont know the value but could have bought a couple Henry Ball MLII's from what I've been offered to buy it- and I've had a couple of angry ones when told its not for sale - it would be nice if it had a known history to it....I like the Idea of passing guns down through the generations - a cousin of mine has some of the early muskets from our family ... unfortunately he'll pass them to his son instead of over to me ;D....but thats the way it should be... Rick

[davel]

Cool

[Jeff Stamper]

Reckon it might be a cartridge gun's barrel made into a muzzleloader?
Jeff.

[getonit]

Jeff- If it was there wasnt any caliber or other information stamped on the barrel as you would normally have- that was an avenue that was explored quite a few years ago by a collector - found that the cartridge and proof marks shoud be visable near the breech- none on this... Rick

[tg]

Nice piece, no doubt a target gun, ML targey shooting lasted a long time after they were out of style for general use.

[MattWisc]

getonit,

Great looking Bottom Slapper you got there! Anyone know where I can pick up a Butt Plate that's similar to the one on this rifle?

[flinter]

Little late but WOW! Interesting.

I am not aware of win ever making ML's but that doesn't mean it ain't so. Placement of the rear sight "may" indicate that it was a cartridge barrel with the chamber cut off but then again, longer sight radius makes for more accuracy..... With the false muzzle it's obviously a bullet shooter so you can't go by the rifling twist as an indicator of a recycled barrel. Have you contacted winchester directly? They are usually good about historical info, even if they re-direct you to an outside source. If you can't get it there, try the NRA.

BTW, I wouldn't sell it either....unless the price was definitely high enough...I can be bought but not cheaply! LOL

[spud]

looks like a win.hi-wall bbl.

[Ken Aiken]

That's a nice rifle and I've not seen another like it. My initial assumption is that the barrel was from Winchester and that the gun is custom made. I won't bore you with the history of target shooting that formally began in the 1850s (National Rifle Club, Oct. 1858). Many of the top competitors worked for -- or had worked for -- the major gun companies, but fabricated these target rifles for club competitions. Excellent examples of Vermont target rifles, including underhammers, are to be found in Terry Tyler's book, "Vermont's Gunsmiths & Gunmakers To 1900."

[bman5575]

Anyone have information on getting ahold of Rayhill? Wouls like to see about some custom work