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Post by Swede on Mar 6, 2006 12:47:07 GMT -5
Weatherwise it was a beautiful weekend. I was up early on Saturday morning. Frost was so heavy it looked like it had snowed. Just before 7AM I opened the drapes across the back of the house. Spotted 2 coyotes working their way up river behind the place. one yote was 75 yards walking along a fence line and the other was just on this side of the river about 190 yards. Hurried to the bedroom to retrieve the 6.5 swede, stepped out on to the deck. Just as I did the closer coyote spotted me and started running all out. My dog was behind me whining like crazy. By the time I got the a 'yote in my sights it was a good 200 yards out so gave it a hail mary shot. Close but no cigar. Later in the afternoon glassed some whistle pigs out warming themselves in the field behind the house. Made a nice shot on a chuck about 155 yards with my new 222 rem. First kill with that rifle. Tried taking another chuck at 260 yards. Took five shots and could not score. I was within a few inched but could not confirm a hit. Frustrating. I had loaded up some 55gr Sierra SPT over 23.0gr Varget. My new rifle just does not seem to like full house loads. Seems to prefer 90-95% of maximum. Still a little later I saw a groundhog out at 805 yards. Wind was almost nil. So I used the 6.5x55 just to see how close that I git. I emptied the magazine on that thing trying for it. I later computed that I needed a 20 foot holdover with the 85gr HP at 3125fps MV. It was fun and I needed to sharpen up on my shooting. If I haven't bored you to death yet. The grandchildren were visiting yesterday and my 9 year old grandson asked it he could shoot the 10/22. So I got out 20 some rounds and the metal swinging targets. He really surprises me how well he can shoot. He is ADD and just can not sit still. Some time later the grandson was glassing the field and saw three deer, He says, "Pap, I see three deer and one of them is a buck". "How can you tell one is a buck?" I say. "By it's antlers, Pap" "No way!, bucks don't have antlers this time of year". Well I took the binocs and sure enough there was a six point walk with two does. He had both antlers, too. We and others have seen more bucks with antlers late this year then any I can remember.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 6, 2006 13:29:02 GMT -5
Nothing boring about that post. I'll bore you now. Just got done playing with the cat after lunch. Spent 15 minutes with him on the inside of a cardboard box and me on the outside taunting him and all twenty of his weapons.
He got a couple of real good ones in on me. Even broke out a bandaid. He's a quick little buggar and great little hunter. I try and keep him tuned up. Would rather have been hurling projectiles at coyotes and woodchucks though.
805 yds! That's a long way. I've done a lot of that sort of thing. Any close hits past 500 yds is almost as good as a hit. One day, I pecked away at a woodchuck at about 650 yds with my .243. The 1st shot was a foot low and 3 feet right with the slight breeze that day. The next 4 or 5 shots were spot on.... except on him!! A few of which sent him jumping. Then he finally bolted and ran AWAY from his hole! I told my partner that he must have thought his hole was defective or that the danger was coming from it!! We laughed so hard at the sight of him running all out until he disappeared over the hillside! Somewhere before he reached the horizon, I sent another his way and kicked up some more dust in his vicinity. It almost would have been a shame to have nailed him......nah.
My longest shot ever was 525 paces (Way before rangefinders) when I was 15-16 yrs old with my trusty 30-06 deer rifle that was also my woodchuck rifle. There was a 3 ft long scorch in the field just in front of him and he was at the end of it....very dead. A lucky skipping richocet!!!! I still counted it as a hit of course, because I hit 'em........ and because I was 15-16!!
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Post by Swede on Mar 6, 2006 16:54:18 GMT -5
My longest shot ever was 525 paces (Way before rangefinders) when I was 15-16 yrs old with my trusty 30-06 deer rifle that was also my woodchuck rifle. There was a 3 ft long scorch in the field just in front of him and he was at the end of it....very dead. A lucky skipping richocet!!!! I still counted it as a hit of course, because I hit 'em........ and because I was 15-16!! Sounds like quite an exciting weekend, Wilmsmeyer. That's the way it is when the grand kids are not around. Spend more time with the dogs then. Cats are to wild. LOL I've take plenty of whistle pigs with your patented richocets, most past 300 yards. I need to start rangefinding before I take those long shots; not afte. Could save me some money. ;D Have you tried the ML10 on any varmint yet? Any luck?
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 6, 2006 17:14:56 GMT -5
Swede,
Not yet, but I'm fixin' to. (Other then a coyote during our regular deer season) This summer will see the Savage take some woodchucks. The .243 is the normal ticket in the open spaces and where noise is not a factor. However, how can I NOT add the Savage into the starting line-up??
I like shooting prone on long chuck shots and don't know how this will work out with the recoil!! I may limit myself to kneeling/leaning type shots inside 100 yds or so. Maybe at camp, I will practice prone and see if there is a comfortable position to absorb that recoil laying down. Somehow, I doubt it.
I have a feeling that 250 SST's going 2,700 fps and shooting inside 1 1/2" @ 100 yds will be dramatic to say the least. Very humane. Doubt that these buggars will be donating any organs!
I will surely post my efforts here on this forum as they happen! Can't wait! May even try to make some video's again!!
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Post by Swede on Mar 6, 2006 17:37:25 GMT -5
I can imagine that shooting the ML10 prone would be like using a telephone pole as a backrest. Good Luck on your endeavors. Swede
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Post by E.T. on Mar 6, 2006 19:34:08 GMT -5
Swede
My hunting partner has an older model from Remington .222 that loves 50gr sierra bullets and will hold .375” groups at 100meters and under 1” at 200meters. But try and load with 55gr bullets and it does the classic keyhole affect on paper. Just curious as to what make of .222 yours is.
Ed
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 6, 2006 20:45:16 GMT -5
E.T.,
We have a 22-250 in camp. I believe it's a Rem 788? Not mine, not sure. It's fairly old with ugly wood. With many factory 55 grain offerings it shoots terrible. (as in 2-3 inches at 100 yds) Someone had a box of factory 40 gr HP's from Federal in their truck. Instant clover leafs!!
I went and bought a set of dies and we now load 40 Gr Nosler BT's in front of 40 Gr H380 and get awesome accuracy at 3,900 fps. Woodchucks love it.
Although I never checked the gun, I have a feeling that it has a slow twist. I'm pretty sure that 1-14 was common a while back. Don't know for sure.
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Post by E.T. on Mar 6, 2006 21:28:46 GMT -5
Wilmsmeyer
The slower twist is what I also deducted but never checked. If memory serves me correct it was a 697 model but don’t quote me on that. My partner does not reload and I actually developed that 50gr bullet load for him with 25.0gr of Varget and CCI BR-4 primer. Of course neck turning, flash hole de-burring with a light chamfer and getting the seating to be .030” of the lands made this load really turn on. It seldom sees the range anymore but is deadly on ground hogs or jackrabbits when he is on the money that day.
Ed
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 6, 2006 21:58:45 GMT -5
I should have added some particulars:
Seated off lands as well by approx .030, neck sized cases due to using only in this gun. No neck turning. Regular Rem primer. Nothing more.
Strap on rings and 3 X 9 Leupold. Not ideal but sure has a track record going.
I have noticed split necks in about 10% of my fired cases. Obviously, those get tossed. Any ideas here? Never have had this problem with my other guns/cases to this high degree. Have loaded for .243 (extensively), .218 bee, 22 hornet, .223 to name a few.
Other then a quick zero check, this gun is a dedicated killing machine during the summer. It's rather ugly but it shoots this load like a beauty queen! It has made the 2 kids (13 & 15) regular professional woodchuck slayers in short order.
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Post by Swede on Mar 7, 2006 1:49:53 GMT -5
Swede My hunting partner has an older model from Remington .222 that loves 50gr sierra bullets and will hold .375” groups at 100meters and under 1” at 200meters. But try and load with 55gr bullets and it does the classic keyhole affect on paper. Just curious as to what make of .222 yours is. Ed Ed, A month ago I acquired a Ruger M77 Allweather model after selling my first 222 rifle a few years ago, I really missed that rifle. I mounted a 6.5-20x Vari-X III on it that I had sitting on the shelf. With the Sierra 55gr I am getting 4 clover leafing (1/4" group) with one shot about 0.2" away from the group @ 1 o'clock with the maximum loads. I really can't seem to pattern the flyer. Sometimes it occurs on the second shot, other group could be the fourth. Maybe my bench habits, but this Ruger with my "max" loads prints the same group time after time. If I reduce charge by 5-10%, no flyer. Sierra manual shows 2850 fps with the powder I'm using. The Ruger also only has 100 rounds but through it. I might settle after a few more rounds. I have a bunch of 40gr thru 55 grain pills, different brands to try through the spring. I even have a full box of 46gr Flat Nose. Where those came from I can't remember. Why the flat nose, I quess for 22 Hornet loads.
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Post by Swede on Mar 7, 2006 2:06:03 GMT -5
I have noticed split necks in about 10% of my fired cases. Obviously, those get tossed. Any ideas here? Never have had this problem with my other guns/cases to this high degree. Have loaded for .243 (extensively), .218 bee, 22 hornet, .223 to name a few. wilmsmeyer, how many times have the 22-250 cases been reloaded. I had a similar problem with my 6.5x55 and 25-06 with near maximum loads until I annealed the cases. Before annealing the 6.5 would split about one in forty to fifty cases and the 25-06, one in ten. The 6.5 had been reloaded many times and could have work hardened. Case neck splitting has all but been eliminated after annealing. I've recently got some new Luapa 6.5mm cases to replace the Rems & Wins that have been reloaded way too many times.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 7, 2006 2:51:50 GMT -5
Swede,
The case's are at most 2 or 3 times fired. I bought a brand new bag of brass (100) Rems. Many cracked after one loading.
When annealing, how hot do you go and what is your procedure on this. Never tried it.
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Post by E.T. on Mar 7, 2006 6:44:19 GMT -5
Swede
Thanks for taking time to reply. The Deuce has always been a classic that never lost ground until the .223 arrived. If it wasn’t for the easy cheap access to brass where after 5 firings I just discard them the deuce would have been my choice also. Gotta love the Rugers that are reasonably priced and shoot well. I have never met an owner of a Ruger that had anything bad to say about its performance. Sometimes a little doctoring is needed but that initial free bore design is great in my book.
As for flyers, neck turning and flash hole de-burring pretty well took care of that problem for me and maximum load with Varget gives me what I want for performance. Only thing now to watch is the human factor.
Wilmsmeyer
I have never had to deal with neck splitting and am unfamiliar with this problem. Will try to see what is in my library when I have some free time and question my machinist friend when I see him again. His nick name is “The Doc” as he has helped solved many a rifle problem for others. Very little gets by him.
Introducing the next generations of hunters or shooters to firearms is a joy to see and hear. I have no natural children of my own but have on occasion been with other parents at the range with their children introducing them to the sport. To see their eyes light up when they start hitting the bulls-eye is a reward in itself. Thanks for sharing about your 2 young marksmen who are progressing quickly up in the ranks.
Ed
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 7, 2006 7:43:11 GMT -5
E.T.,
Funny thing is....these are my friends kids. Their Dad's own the camp I hunt out of. They live in the country and are growing up as I did. Dogs, guns and space. They are already very accomplished hunters and shooters.
Very safe. They also have young legs and love retrieving our deer for us! I have no natural borns either so I play "uncle" as often as possible.
The 22-250 has just made them more effective. One has an old .218 bee (I've been reloadimg for him for a few years) and the other had been using his dad's single shot New England .223.
Every year in the spring my friend (who is the brother of the 2 dads) and I load these two killers in the truck and take them 2 hours south into Stuben County. It's like stepping back in time down there. Big, big country. Farm lanes take us way off the roads and you can shoot 360 degrees for hours as far as you can see.
We try and do this every weekend until the grass gets to high. Somewhere on this board about a month ago, I talked about one of these kids shooting a woodchuck off a 4 foot high fence post. It was the younger one using this 22-250. It is not uncommon to shoot 20 or so a day down there, usually missing about that many too! Fun,fun. It's the one place I know of to go where your barrel can warm up!!
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Post by RAF on Mar 7, 2006 8:02:26 GMT -5
It's interesting you mention the necks splitting on the 22-250. My do the same thing and at about the same rate. Usually after about 3 or 4 firings. I'm loading 41 grains of H380 under 40 grain Horandy V-max getting just over 4000 fps.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 7, 2006 8:40:43 GMT -5
RAF,
It's also interesting that the load is almost identical. Mine is 40 gr H380 - 40 Gr Nosler BT @ 3,900+. Itsy, bitsy little groups. Sighted dead-on at 250 and only 1 1/2 - 2 inches high somewhere inbetween.
This has been the only load I've ever tried for this gun since it shot so well right off the bat. (and it's not my gun) I believe that for this weight bullet the max charge is 41 gr H380. The min was 39 grs. I went right for the middle. I'm going from memory here on the min-max so anyone reading this, make sure you check it yourself.
I always wonder if it's the brass, the gun, the load? There are no visable signs of excess pressure, cases are trimmed to factory suggested length. Thinking back, I guess I do remember as a youngster, at age 13-14, having this problem with some old 22 hornet brass. But it has been a long time. It was my first experiences at loading and was done with second hand brass and a $20 Lee loader, one at a tedious time.
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Post by Swede on Mar 7, 2006 10:57:38 GMT -5
Swede, The case's are at most 2 or 3 times fired. I bought a brand new bag of brass (100) Rems. Many cracked after one loading. When annealing, how hot do you go and what is your procedure on this. Never tried it. Case annealing is heating the case necks (only the necks) to a specific temperature and cooling with water quickly. I also want to mention that with a few NEW cases the necks should be annealed before ever loading. If you have ever seen a New Lapua case you will notice a case coloring on the neck and shoulder area. This is from annealing. The hand method that I utilize requires a propane torch and a pan of water. I adjust the torch for a 1/2" flame. Hold the case by the base by the fingers and slowly turn the case neck in the flame. The case neck will glow and the case shoulder area will just start to turn a bluish color. When the case base gets to hot for my fingers, I drop the case in the water to cool. Dry the cases in the sun or use a warm oven. This method is primitive but works for me and I have yet to burn my fingers. Always seem to let go. knock on wood. Annealing is easier than it seems. Here a couple of links that might help, the last is similar to the method I use; www.6mmbr.com/annealing.htmlwww.gun-tests.com/performance/jun96cases.htmlyarchive.net/gun/ammo/case_annealing.htmlAnnealing is easier than it is to describe.
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Post by RAF on Mar 8, 2006 12:27:53 GMT -5
Wilmseyer. You're right that 41 is the max for this bullet and powder. Tried several load and settled on this one. My rifle likes it best. When I first started loading for this rifle, did a little reading and found the classic load of 38 grains of H380 with a 55 grain bullet. It shot great but then I succumed to the desire for a faster bullet . Tried a bunch of different 50 grain bullets and couldn't make them shoot. Contact Sierra and they told me that in the twist on my barrel the 50 grainers wouldn't stabalize . Oh well. I decided to try a 40 grain and they shot real well but not quite what I wanted, accuracy wise. Then I read somewhere about how well the 40 V-max worked. Tried that, and BINGO ;D. I get 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds. I'm zeroed at 1 inch high at 100 and gophers don't stand a chance at 200. That bullet is very fragile and at it's velocity it turns gophers in to red mist . I had some doubts about it effectiveness on coyotes but those I've shot dropped in their track.
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