savage 10ml 11

[timberman]

Shot a nice buck the other day at 90 paces offhand using 44 grains 5744 with the 250 grain hornady xtp. This buck had let me walk by twice that day within 35 yards and never moved. Toward the end of the day while heading back to the truck at a slow pace there he was in the goldenrod walking away from me. He stopped and looked back over his shoulder. Going thru my mind was buck, saftey, shoot. He dissapeard from sight, the bullet hit just behing the last rib on the right side and never exited, went thru the liver, and one lung and the xtp came out when empting out the innards. It had retained 245 grains and expanded perfectly. There was five points on one side and about four horns comming out from the other side for a total of 13 points. Not much of a spread but a nice large in the freezer type deer. He never moved from the place he had stopped to look back from that savage indeed slammed him on the spot. Now for some doe's. Timberman

[Kevin B.]

Congratulations timberman! Great shot!!

[reelnellie]

Congrats! Good shot. It really is incredible how quickly the Savage will drop a deer. Good eatin' and good luck with the does.

[simonkenton]

Good work timberman!
I can tell that, like me, you don't buy into the idea that the 250 XTP is not a good deer bullet.

[timberman]

I was able to take a nice doe yesterday aprox. less than 100 yds. it was accross a ravine and could not pace it off. She was laying down and I put the bullet about 6 inches below the head in the neck she just layed flat. I was using the 44 grains of 5744 ,black mmp sabot, 250 grain hornaday xtp. It was bullet size going in and expanded bullet size going out. It went thru the neck bone and just kept on going. After I reached her I saw she had extra white hair on the sides and down her legs not a real piebald but much more than normal. She was good size and is aging now. Sure do love that bullet and powder combination. I could not have asked any more of a bullet than that, it didn't explode or blow a fist size hole thru any meat. If things work well I have a few more permits to try this combo on along with the muzzle loader season.

[ozark]

I also think the 250XTp generally does a fine job. It has once for me. But many will tell you that the 300 grain XTP will do as well at any range and better at some. I am certainly no authority and am presently trying to settle on a load to put an end to the search. timberman the loction of your hit would put an end to a deers life quickly with a wide variety of bullets. However, you had confidence enough to try for that location and that means a bunch. Bullet location outweighs bullet peformance after cotact IMO. ben

[simonkenton]

The 250 XTP is very acccurate in my rifle. I shoot 43 grains of N110.
I have shot only one deer with it, but I got a 4 inch entrance wound.
That was astonishing. It was a head on shot on a doe, got her right in the middle of the chest, the bullet went diagonally and stopped just under the skin in front of the ham. The recovered slug weighed 186 grains. I don't know how you could ask more of a bullet.
She folded in her tracks.
Anyway, I switched to the 250 SST because I get the hides tanned and that entrance hole was a bit too much. I have killed two bucks with the SST and I like it very much also.
I might go back to the 250 XTP next year and try a straightaway lung shot, I am interested in the effect on the deer. I have just about enough deer skins for right now.

[timberman]

The first deer this year I shot thru the chest cavity took out ribs on both sides. there was a 50 cent size hole in and out. That was aprox. 75 yds. slight quarering toward me. Hope that helps.

[voyager]

Congratulations on your deer. Good shootin!
I agree with you on this load, I took a buck on Monday using the same exact load. This was my second deer with the Savage, both were instant kills. So far the 250 xtp has performed perfectly. Sure makes it hard to try other loads.

[Rifleman]

Sooner or later the 250 xtp will let you down, it just comes apart to easily. I would recommend a .458 300 gr like the Remington.

[timberman]

Rifleman, You're right ! The story- Saw a nice doe and she moved as I shot, not the best shot placement. She went down and back up 3/4 of a mile later accross several ravines, streams and numerous blowdowns. I was considering what you had posted. It was late in the day and could not allow enough time for her to stay down for the next day. ( coyot's ) While pursuing this doe another deer jumps up and trots accross right where she should have been. At the shot it took a awakward leap and from the sound it was a solid hit. No blood, no hair. That turned out to be a different deer ( had several permits ) they were both going the same way so I kept on the pursuit. As one veered off I followed that one which turned out to be the second deer a nice 6 point buck. ( aprox. one hundred yards later and in another ravine ) The bullet went in behind the left front shoulder and under the hide on the other side. This was at less than 75 yard shot. So no blood trail to follow if these deer had not taken the same path, as there were many tracks in this area to be confused with I would not have found the buck. The first deer continued on until closing time at a considerable distance from the start. That doe is dead but lost, I really dislike that. I purchased the gun not long before season and have only put aprox. 100+ rounds thru it with the 5744. The bullet stayed together but what I wonder about is what would have happened at 150 + yds.? What powder & amount are you using for the 458. 300 gr.? I have used a 370 gr. maxi. in my thompson center 50 for years and it has taken many deer. I would like to shoot out to 300 yds if I can group them at that distance. Thanks for the post

[simonkenton]

On the doe it sounds like you are blaming the bullet for the fact that you made a bad shot. You are not even certain of where you hit the deer.
What makes you think that another bullet, that hit the same place, would have dropped this deer?

[timberman]

I am not blaming the bullet for the shot placement, but from what happened with the shot on the buck I would have appreciated having two holes instead of one. Which is what also occured on the doe although not dropping her on the spot it would have made the tracking job easier and I believe she would have dropped sooner. The fault does lie with me tho in not having enough time to test out a heavier bullet with a different powder, and even tho she turned as I shot, I was the one that pulled the trigger. In shooting five deer with this bullet two were pass thru's and three were not. I would like to find a combination that will pass thru but not necc. a huge exit hole. Mabye I'm asking too much or being too picky, there is a lot of info on this site that I have been reading thru about powders and bullet selection which I will continue to cover before buying more powder and bullets to burn up in getting ready for next season. Thanks for the reply.

[simonkenton]

OK, I understand.
Well if you want a pass through you definitely need to go to another bullet.

[whyohe]

timberman, congrats on the ones you got and sorry for the one you lost. i would recomend the barnes/ knight TMZ. I have not gotten a deer with this bullet yet but the testing i have done and the testaments of others who have gotten deer with them leads me to suggest them to you. you have to use supplied sabots cause these are a boattail bullet. now i beleave the barnes MZs are a flatbase, all copper bullet and you can use sabots purchased from MMP or who ever you buy themm from. if im wrong on this some one please correct me.

[timberman]

whyohe, Thanks for the post, what powder and amount are you using for that barnes/ Knight and the mzs?

[whyohe]

im using 65 grns of H-4198 and the 295 tipped tmz.

[ozark]

I personally have little experience taking deer with different bullets shot through the Savage. Over the years I have found that certain calibers with ordinary velocity do best with certain weight bullets. .270 with 130 grain, 30-06 with 165 grain, .22 rimfire with 45 grain etc. From all that I have read on this forum the 300 grain best matches the .45 cal. we shoot. 50 Cal. with sabot but .452 Dia. Bullet. Is there anything the 250 grain bullet does performance wise that the 300 grain will not do? I am refering to the XTPs here. Ben

[chuck41]

It will "rock your world" about 25% less which is really nice on the range, but not so significant in the field.

[wilmsmeyer]

Ozark,

IMO, there is nothing a 250 XTP bullet will do that a 300 gr XTP won't do better....on deer.....from a Savage.....at book load Savage velocities. Velocities will be similar, the 300 will still expand....possibly loose significant weight on a close bone shot. The 250 will shattter more so and impede penetration. It has to....it's less of a bullet. The 300 will have a slightly better BC and be going faster then a 250 XTP at the upper end of the ranges we shoot. Therefore you'll give up NOTHING in trajectory at book load levels with the 300. At least nothing that will ever cause you to miss a deer! You will actually gain at longer ranges.

300 grains is relatively light for this gun and what it can hurl. Recoil is also "light" at book levels. 300 XTP's are meant for pistols where speeds are slow....so it will expand and even frag at book load speeds in the Savage. It does, IMO, have the mass needed to take any shot on a whitetail at book load speeds.

I shoot at above book load speeds and therefore would never touch any XTP in a Savage. "XTP" stands for Extreme Terminal Performance. EXTREME being the operative word and this is also geared for handgun velocities. Goats will graze on this one but I stand by it without a doubt in my mind as to what we ask of a bullet.

We're shooting rifles....rifles that do way more then anticipated from a muzzleloader. Using pistol bullets is only a result of smokeless performance completely surpassing the wildest expectations of BP grade muzzleloading and the bullets that have traditionally been used in BP Magnum grade guns (still under 2000fps). Takes a while for things to catch up and make sense. Book load velocity is very, very high for the intended use of XTP's, especially the 250's. You'll get by with the heavier versions when considering ANY reasonable angle but barely.

Match speed with bullet. A strong bullet will do the same thing at high speed that a weaker one will do at slower speed. Penetrate vitals at any angle and kill animals. Everyone has a story of WOW success with lesser bullets and everyone has a story of WOW failure with a stronger bullet. But I bet the masses are all well served with a bullet that can be counted on to criss-cross an animal.....severing vital organs in between.

JMO from evolving with muzzleloading and the advances made in both power capability and bullet evolution.

Nosler makes a 120 gr flat point in 7mm. Who would push it to it's limit in a 7mm STW to 3,600 fps and call it the greatest end all- be all whitetail bullet/load combo. Or would a person instead pick a 140 gr Nosler partition at 3,300-3,4000 fps or a Barnes X bullet and have a much greater whitetail load? That's my logic for what it's worth.

[timberman]

Wilmsmeyer, Just curious what bullet,grain,and powder and amout are you using or what would you reccomend, 300 grain or heavier? I am aware each gun likes a piticular combination but I am looking for starting points. Thanks for all the posts, can always use more input.

[wilmsmeyer]

I really can't recommend anything to you because I do not know what you want. What I shoot is not something most people want to shoot and no-one should start out there anyway.

What situations do you face in the woods? Yardages?

I may not answer this post or any PM till after Christmas as I'm leaving town shortly for a trip to Missouri.

[whyohe]

have a safe trip wilms!!

[tar12]

timberman,
I have personally shot pounds and pounds of 5744,pushing XTPs.I learned quickly that the 250 grn XTPs were not going to cut it.I had several tracking jobs because of them.I do not like tracking jobs.I quickly switched to the 300 grn. XTPs.They performed much better.No more tracking jobs.But as Wimsmeyer so accurately put it,they are pistol bullets and have their limits.IMO,the 250s have no place in the deer woods in a Savage.The 300 grn XTPs are limited by range,250 yds or less in the hands of a experienced shooter.They are not fool-proof either.I have had them come apart and not exit as well,but not nearly as often as the 250 grn XTPs.My top choice of goat..errr deer fodder would be the 300 grn. Barnes Orginal,followed by the 300 grn Smokeeter modified,and lastly the one that R-Man suggested,which is a unmodified Smokeeter bullet.You will get exits.I use 60 grns of N120 to push these.This is a pretty stout load.But works like no other.

[timberman]

tar12,
Thanks for the post. Have you tried the Horonady .458 300 gr. #4500? I have pruchased some Horonady .452 300 gr. xtp to experiment with different powder loads ( within listed limits ) for distance, drop, accuracy,grouping, and on my shoulder. RW llisted the n120 as well from 57-60 grains (I read somewhere). I have shot the Barnes expanders in a 20 ga. 3' and was quite impressed with those, don't know if this is the same type or not.