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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 5, 2007 5:26:07 GMT -5
I would not go above 150 gr. What I would do is find accuracy..and you may have to try other propellants such as black powder.
The highest velocity, with accuracy has come with 3F blackpowder for me and the older 250 gr MZ. I used to get about 1950 with it. Dropping back to 2F in the same amount would reduce speed to 1850.
Instead of trying to reach a "published" velocity go for the accuracy first. My first shooting with an ML was with Pyrodex and I had problems with it. Switching propellants changed things a lot.
If you HAVE to reach 2000 fps, get a smokeless ML. With powder charges of 100+ grains less, and WAY less recoil, you can surpass your speed goal by 400 fps.
JMO
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Post by FLETCH on Mar 6, 2007 10:54:20 GMT -5
The Lyman web page says 150 grain pyrodex pellets not loose or Triple 7 loose for the Mustang. I am not sure if the Lyman barrels are Spanish steel and proof tested to the same level as say a Green Mt. barrel, so I would not exceed 150 gr. or 3 Pyrodex pellets or use Triple 7 FF loose at 150 gr. Your problem could be a loose sabot bullet to barrel combo and I would try some different bullets first. You could of course knurl a few bullets to increase the size and tightness within the sabot and get an idea which way to move. Have you checked your fired sabots to see if you are blowing the pedals off?
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 6, 2007 11:51:14 GMT -5
I do not want to pester you......
Your desire to reach a magical velocity plateau is causing you to flirt with safety.
I am not sure what you think a few hundred fps will do for you but look at the following ballistics:
Bullet BC of .21 - Velocity of 1700 fps compared to 2000 fps:
1700 fps zeroed at 150 yds will make you 3.7 inches high at 100 and 9.1 inches low at 200
2000 fps zeroed at 150 yds will make you 2.5 inches high at 100 and 6.4 inches low at 200.
Either way you will be getting a rainbow beyong about 175 yds. Under that range you'll hardly know that difference. If you think you will be greatly benefitted by a few hundred FPS, you're wrong....IMO......especially at the expense of safety.
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Post by Jon on Mar 6, 2007 15:04:14 GMT -5
If thats 150 grains loose powder, thats way to much. I read your all the posts and if they are that hard to load, thats where your accuracy could be suffering. I'd just try a couple different bullet combos until you find one that shrinks your groups. If none of that works, email or call lyman and tell them you'd like an replacement barrel.
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Post by Jon on Mar 7, 2007 0:05:47 GMT -5
Have you considered the great plains conicals or the TC maxi hunters? I have gotten great accuracy out of both of them and only 7 1/2" low at 150yards. Thats means, aim on the back at 150 and its down.
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Post by Jon on Mar 7, 2007 3:21:33 GMT -5
yeah those are the great plains. When i load, i have to use my starter to get them started into the barrel because it cutting it so hard. that mustang sounds like it has a loose bore. The maxi hunters i can press in with my thumb and they shoot great. Im running out of ideas for you. One last bullet i'd give a try is the Saber tooth bullets. Sounds like the lyman mustang might be good for sabots only from the sounds of how loose those bullets fit. I wish i could help you out more but wow, If those great plains bullets are loading easy for you, Its going to be a real chore finding a bullet that will work. Maybe a knigh conical from cabelas?
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Post by FLETCH on Mar 7, 2007 8:32:16 GMT -5
Skeeter
I was not advocating pellets or Pyrodex just telling you what the Lyman web page says. The problem with pellets I feel is with leaving inconsistent air space under your bullet as well as variation of weight of each pellet.
there are a lot of reasons you could be loosing accuracy and if you have a tight fit you have to try different solutions to find the reason. I had some trouble with the Barnes TMZ 250 that I tried recently and found the spin jag was deforming the tip just enough to cause the problem.
I get the kind of velocity that you are getting from about 85 grains of triple 7 FFF in my Omega, but you have to clean between each shot and be very consistent and thorough in how you do clean the triple 7.
Another thing you might look at is lapping the barrel. It will clean better, load easier and you can eliminate this as a problem.
I do have some concerns about what the Italian barrels Lyman uses are proof tested to and unless you are sure don't exceed the 150 grain. Every smart reloader starts with a reduced load and slowly increases watching for pressure signs With an in line ML they are not always apparent until you get a catastrophe.
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Post by Underclocked on Mar 8, 2007 13:17:12 GMT -5
Skeeter - you are wanting to go the wrong direction both accuracy-wise and safety-wise. If you want accuracy - drop those charges down to something reasonable. Start at about 70 grains of loose powder and work your way up slowly. You should see accuracy peak, then fall off as charge is increased. Settle on the peak accuracy load and be happy. My guess is that your bore is now suffering from leading and plastic fouling - unless you have cleaned the heck out of it. Before shooting again, clean that bore thoroughly - realizing that both deposits can be a little hard to see in the barrel. Your thread scares me a little.  |
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Post by Triple Se7en on Mar 10, 2007 0:30:52 GMT -5
You can expect alot of leading using Maxi conicals with magnum powder charges.
Take Underclocked's advice on powder volumes and cleaning. 70-80 grains is plenty to 150 yards. Use a good gun solvent, large 3" patches and bore brush for cleaning.
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Post by DannoBoone on Mar 18, 2007 11:37:49 GMT -5
UPDATE! Will definitely be fire lapping the barrel. You feel three distinct tight spots as you push the bullet home. Hand lapping can take care of this problem without going to the extreme of fire lapping -- it took care of my Encore barrel. I used Flitz metal polish; it took a hundred strokes but it took out less metal while solving the problem than what just a few fire lapping shots would do. |
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Post by tpcollins on Mar 22, 2007 17:38:25 GMT -5
Have you ever verified the accuracy of your chrono? I shoot about 106 grains by volume of 2F Triple 7 and get well over 2000 fps but I also only shoot a 180 grain polymer tipped sabot.
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Post by mistered on Apr 8, 2007 21:11:16 GMT -5
If you hit your deer he is not going to care how fast your bullet goes through him. If you miss your deer you ain't going to care how fast your bullet went past him.
If I can get the groups I want (1-3/4 in. @100 yd.) I can happily allow for the looping trajectory of a slower bullet. Trajectory is predictable, bad grouping is a crap shoot.
-Ed
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Post by RAF on Apr 8, 2007 22:14:14 GMT -5
If you hit your deer he is not going to care how fast your bullet goes through him. If you miss your deer you ain't going to care how fast your bullet went past him. -Ed Good point. |
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Post by SURVEYOR on Apr 8, 2007 22:15:23 GMT -5
If you hit your deer he is not going to care how fast your bullet goes through him. If you miss your deer you ain't going to care how fast your bullet went past him. If I can get the groups I want (1-3/4 in. @100 yd.) I can happily allow for the looping trajectory of a slower bullet. Trajectory is predictable, bad grouping is a crap shoot. -Ed It didn't take me very long to figure that out.  |
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Post by mistered on Apr 17, 2007 9:54:48 GMT -5
The Lyman web page says 150 grain pyrodex pellets not loose or Triple 7 loose for the Mustang. I am not sure if the Lyman barrels are Spanish steel and proof tested to the same level as say a Green Mt. barrel, so I would not exceed 150 gr. or 3 Pyrodex pellets or use Triple 7 FF loose at 150 gr. Your problem could be a loose sabot bullet to barrel combo and I would try some different bullets first. You could of course knurl a few bullets to increase the size and tightness within the sabot and get an idea which way to move. Have you checked your fired sabots to see if you are blowing the pedals off? Fletch, What does blowing the petals off indicate? -Ed |
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Post by mistered on Apr 17, 2007 10:05:43 GMT -5
Skeeter,
Many central Michigan sportsman knew the late Howard Allen. Howard was a great guy and many of us learned a lot from him. The lesson he taught without saying a word was Safety First in handloading. As a result of overcharging a handload Howard had a mangled hand with two fingers missing and and eye that was useless.
Be careful, guy. The even normal pressures are very close to creating a bomb out of your barrel.
-Ed
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Post by mistered on Apr 17, 2007 10:17:15 GMT -5
Well guys, here's the latest. Fire lapped the barrel with 10 BEARTOOTH lapping bullets. Started playing with four different bullets and both Pyrodex and Triple 7, and hit on the golden combination. A 5-shot group of 110 grains T-7 FFFG under the 410 grain Hornady Great Plains produced one ragged hole at 100 yards. Don't know the velocity because I killed my chronograph with a sabot to the face at an earlier range session. My records show I've tried 23 different load/bullet combinations with this gun so far. This stuff is fun, isn't it! I'm not experienced with loose powder but I would never load that much 3FG behind that heavy a bullet. Good group, sure, but what kind of groups might you get if you have to switch eyes or hold your rifle with one hand? I've been told that 110 grains of 3FG is about the max for .50 cal. 300 grain bullets. That puts a 410 grain bullet well into the danger zone. -Ed |
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Post by mistered on Apr 20, 2007 0:28:39 GMT -5
Skeeter- Remember that 777 won't weigh up in actual weight to it's "grains equivalent". For instance my 50 grain 777 pellets actually weigh 30 grains. Not sure if this relationship is exactly the same for loose powder. Also please note that recoil may indicate roughly how much energy your rifle is sending to the target, but it doesn't indicate pressure.
-Ed
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Post by DannoBoone on Apr 21, 2007 16:57:27 GMT -5
One other point.......I had to knurl the 245gr Spitifires between two
files to get them to .452..........they came from factory at .499-.451.
After that, they shot GREAT out of the Savage @ 2600+fps. The last
one dropped a doe in her tracks @ 110yds.
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Post by savagebrother on Sept 25, 2007 19:05:33 GMT -5
ok guys, here's the scoop, verifiable, 4 pyrodex pellets in a savage muzzleloader with 250 sst and mmp sabot= around 2300 fps!!!!
sb
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Sept 26, 2007 4:28:56 GMT -5
Kick a little?
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Post by minst7877 on Sept 26, 2007 6:01:40 GMT -5
 Did some posts get deleted from this thread? It just doesn't seem to follow a logical progression here. I know it is a thread that was started last spring and you seem to be answering a poster named skeeter but their are no posts made by him in this thread. DC
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Post by bubba on Sept 26, 2007 8:50:07 GMT -5
those dang skeeters, bad every summer !
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Did some posts get deleted from this thread? It just doesn't seem to follow a logical progression here. I know it is a thread that was started last spring and you seem to be answering a poster named skeeter but their are no posts made by him in this thread.
