Black Mag 3

[windy]

Went to Magkors web site and it directed me to MDM Muzzleloders.com seems they have Black Mag 3 and made a bullet with the powder attached almost like the Hornady with the pellets attached I'm still trying to get it in the loose powder form Looks like something new to try
check it out comes in two styles with a sabot or without

[esmd]

I'd like to try it in loose powder form, but I'm not interested in their bullet. Anyone know how you can order a pound of the powder only? You can't do it on the MDM website.

[Keith Lewis]

Magkor has been in process of merging for marketing purposes with MDM and apparently that has not completely happened as of now. I just emailed a contact person that says we have to be patient as these things take time. I had sent a rather sharp message as I had been a big supporter of Black Mag'3 ever since it first came out and I bought five pounds (with shipping and hazmat I paid almost $35 a pound. The company has been through a bad deal with one of the manufacturers that was making the powder for them on contract which resulted in some that clumped and had some other bad characteristics. They have since reformulated the powder and added a step to eliminate the clumping and make the powder more repeatable from pound to pound. I understand that they now have another manufacturing facility and I would really like to see the powder on the market. I have heard a rumor that Cabelas or some big store like them was told by the manufactures of Pyrodex and Tripple Seven that if they stocked Black Mag'3 they would pull their powder out of the store so they dropped BM3. Sure hope that was not true as I hate to see politics direct what we are able to purchase. Purchasing a pound and paying the $25 hazmat fee is not a good way to buy powder. You would have to buy about a dozen pounds to make it reasonable in price.

[Keith Lewis]

Keith said:

Magkor has been in process of merging for marketing purposes with MDM and apparently that has not completely happened as of now. I just emailed a contact person that says we have to be patient as these things take time. I had sent a rather sharp message as I had been a big supporter of Black Mag'3 ever since it first came out and I bought five pounds (with shipping and hazmat I paid almost $35 a pound. The company has been through a bad deal with one of the manufacturers that was making the powder for them on contract which resulted in some that clumped and had some other bad characteristics. They have since reformulated the powder and added a step to eliminate the clumping and make the powder more repeatable from pound to pound. I understand that they now have another manufacturing facility and I would really like to see the powder on the market. I have heard a rumor that Cabelas or some big store like them was told by the manufactures of Pyrodex and Tripple Seven that if they stocked Black Mag'3 they would pull their powder out of the store so they dropped BM3. Sure hope that was not true as I hate to see politics direct what we are able to purchase. Purchasing a pound and paying the $25 hazmat fee is not a good way to buy powder. You would have to buy about a dozen pounds to make it reasonable in price.

Forgot to add that I personally do not think the Thundercharge (bullet and powder combination) is a good idea and I have told Magkor CEO that. Of course they think it is the greatest thing going and maybe it is.

[esmd]

Thanks for the info, Keith. If what you wrote about Hodgdon is true, than shame on them.

[KeithLewis]

esmd said:

Thanks for the info, Keith. If what you wrote about Hodgdon is true, than shame on them.

I can not remember who told me that, but I seem to recall that it was one of the employees at Cabelas. The problem with information like that is that the employees are usually not all that tuned into the real story so it may not have a lot of credibility which is probably unfair to Hodgdon. I probably should have just left it as "rumor" and not passed it on in second thought. As a reloader I have used a lot of their stuff and have a lot of Pyrodex. I personally have had real bad results with Tripple Seven in my Omega but my find it better in my White. I am still waiting to see if this merger with MDM will get Black Mag'3 into the stores so that it is not a shipment order only product. I do have some contact with a couple of the Magkor people in fact I forwarded the above note to Giovanni Brus (Magkor's CEO).

[esmd]

I went away from Triple 7 because of the crud ring, and am currently shooting American Pioneer Powder in my T/C. It's now my back up gun as I recently bought a Savage, but I'm still not happy with how the APP is grouping, and would like to give the BM3 a try. Thanks for sharing the info.

[KeithLewis]

The last forumlation from Magkor was shot by Doc White and he was so impressed with the performance he said he is now using it for all his accurizing work. I only have the very first run that was available as I bought five pounds at the first availability. I got real good results with the first pound. I shot some of the best groups yet with my Omega and no crud ring. I am now into the second bottle and the results are similar but for some reason my accuracy in the Omega has gone off a little. I think the problem is with the gun. The synthetic stock leaves something to be desired for accuracy repeatability. I am still trying to find out when the powder will be available again and where. It may still be possible to order direct from Magkor but I am not sure.

[windy]

Hi Keith
If you get any leads on Bm3 I'm would like to order some before the next season I hunt in one State that I can't use Smokeless Powder I need a so called Black Powder sub
Keep trying to contact Magkor Maybe something will loosin up
Later Ray

[KeithLewis]

My last contact with any of the Magkor people indicated that they were in the middle of a merger with MDM for marketing and to quote "these things take time". I have sent emails since with no answer to date so I guess things are still in flux.

[windy]

Finally got an responce from Magkor heres the email
Ray,

John,



Thank you for your interest in BlackMag3 Powder and the All New ThunderCharge Consumable Muzzleloading Cartridge.



MagKor Corporation, the supplier of BlackMag3 powder is currently under reorganization with its new alliance, MDM, and the manufacturing and distribution of BlackMag3 is being relocated to the state of Maine.



All the current powder available is being consumed for the exclusive use in producing the ThunderCharge Consumable Muzzleloading Cartridge. These cartridges have been tested with excellent results and will be available in both full bore conical rounds as well as saboted projectiles.



Shipping of these units is scheduled in September or sooner.



Shipping of the BlackMag3 powder is scheduled to commence later in the year.



All of the projectiles being used with the ThunderCharge, including the new Dyno-Core Premium Lead Free Bullets and the Dyno-Core Magnum Bullets will be available soon on-line and through select dealers.



Please visit www.MDM-muzzleloaders.com or www.MagKor.com for current availability, dealer location and direct shipping information.



Again, thank you for your interest and patience while waiting for these revolutionary new products.

[KeithLewis]

I had suspected that they were concentrating on the "Thundercharge" and unfortunately that will make the loose powder late in hitting the market. I have told them multiple times that I think the "T-Charge" is a big mistake; but it is the brain child of the CEO and also I suspect it was the only way MDM would go ahead with the merger. Magkor needed a bigger lever to get the powder on the market and MDM has better market distribution power. Maybe I am all wet about the T-Charge idea but it does not interest me one bit. I like the loose powder and am glad I ordered five pounds when I did. I still have four left. Mine is the early version but seems to work just fine.

[mike3132]

I think Hornady learned the Loc N Load didnt work all that well. mike

[KeithLewis]

I am just afraid that after the Thundercharge bombs on the market that MDM will drop their support of the Black Mag'3 powder since if their bullet does not get used they have no reason to continue with Black Mag'3 and Magkor will be right back to the lack of distribution problem that has plagued them from the start. The Thundercharge was originally going to use Powerbelt bullets but apparently that deal fell through and someone at MDM sold them the idea of using their bullets.

[windy]

Raymond,

Thank you for your interest in BlackMag3 Powder and the All New
ThunderCharge Consumable Muzzleloading Cartridge.


MagKor Corporation, the supplier of BlackMag3 powder is currently under
reorganization with its new alliance, MDM, and the manufacturing and
distribution of BlackMag3 is being relocated to the state of Maine.


All the current powder available is being consumed for the exclusive use in
producing the ThunderCharge Consumable Muzzleloading Cartridge. These
cartridges have been tested with excellent results and will be available in
both full bore conical rounds as well as saboted projectiles.



Shipping of these units is scheduled soon. Shipping of the
BlackMag3 powder is scheduled to commence sometime next year.


All of the projectiles being used with the ThunderCharge, including the new
Dyno-Core Premium Lead Free Bullets and the Dyno-Core Magnum Bullets will
be available on- line. We will send you a separate email when they are
available.

[esmd]

I just went to both BM3 and MDM's websites, and there's been no further info on when or where BM3 is coming to the market. When you click for more info, you get directed to an email address. I sent an email asking what the deal was, will post any reply I get.

I'm starting to think this stuff will never come to market, at least not for a long time.

[KeithLewis]

I think with the introduction of Blackhorn 209; BlackMag is going to be in real trouble. They are both similar in price and since Blackhorn is from an existing powder company with distribution already established they will win. Blackhorn 209 appears to be superior in most areas, especially in corrosive potential. The one exception is that Blackhorn requires a 209 primer to set it off where the BM3 will ignite with a percussion cap or .25ACP primer conversion. I have supported BM3 from the start but I think they are going to be having even more trouble getting to market successfully now.

[esmd]

I had no idea what Blackhorn 209 is, so I decided to educate myself. All I can say is, wow! This stuff sounds just like the BlackMag3. Randy sounds like he loves the stuff.

www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_breakthrough.htm

www.blackhorn209.com/pdf/brochure.pdf

Now I just need to figure out when and where I can get some of the stuff.

[esmd]

Oh crap, this stuff might not work for me. I have a T/C Thunderhawk with a 209 conversion kit, but it's got an open style nipple, which they're saying isn't suitable for the Blackhorn. Crap, what a letdown.

[esmd]

I just spoke with Western Powders on the phone. Very helpful and nice to talk to, that's always nice. The Blackhorn 209 is being shipped out in April, it should be available for purchase anywhere that sells Accurate Arms powders.

As for the open sided breechplug issue, I spoke with a fellow named Sean who said that it might not ignite properly every time, and that sometimes they get hangfires. The reason being that with the open sided breechplug, not all the fire from the primer makes it to the powder, some of it escapes out the side of the plug. He said if it ignites, it will burn the same every time, it's just the issue of igniting at all, or a hangfire situation.

Now I have to see if I can find a 209 adapter that fits in a old percussion nipple hole, with closed sides.

This is what I have on my Thunderhawk.

www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=686477

Anyone know where I can find the same thing with closed sides? Or I wonder if I could somehow modify what I have?

[rooster257r]

Just glanced at the BH209 site. I didn`t see where it pertaind to conicals. Did I miss something?

[esmd]

It should be fine to use with conicals, provided you have the appropriate type breech system. Just substitute an equal amount of Blackhorn 209 for what you would normally shoot under a conical.

[nimrodrx]

I have some Black Mag 3 for sale on the "Trade Blanket" here.

[esmd]

Got an email from the makers of Black Mag 3:

Thank You for your patience!

Maidstone, Vermont - Millennium Designed Muzzleloaders, Ltd. (MDM), the company that pioneered the development of the Break-Open-Action Inline-Muzzleloader is now offering preloaded, reusable speed loaders.

MDM has taken the field proven performance of Black Mag '3 Powder and conveniently packaged it for the hunter in mind. Add a bullet of your choice to the 5 waterproof Lightning Loads available in standard or magnum amounts of powder. Packaging designed to allow either ground or air shipment without adding any costly Hazmat charges to the consumer. The standard load is 100 grain blackpowder equivalent and retails for $9.95. The magnum load is 150 grain blackpowder equivalent and retails for $12.95.

"After extensive range shooting and field testing, I have found Black Mag '3 to be the cleanest burning, safest, reliable and easiest to clean blackpowder substitute on the market." - Al Raychard, Editor - Bear Hunting Magazine, Author - The Ultimate Guide to Blackpowder Hunting and Muzzleloading Afield Columnist - Muzzle Blasts Magazine (National Muzzleloading Association).

MDM continues to takes modern muzzleloading technology into the new Millennium.


Also available on-line is the Black Mag '3 Powder.

Please visit our website for more information, and to place your order!

John
www.mdm-muzzleloaders.com

[esmd]

You can now order Black Mag 3 online, in 5 pre-measured charges of 100 grains ($9.95) or 150 grains ($12.95). Or you can buy a 1lb. jug for $60 (including HazMat fee). $40 per lb before the HazMat fee is pretty stiff, if you ask me. I mean, maybe it's better than Triple 7 and all, but is it really worth twice the price?

Of course, Blackhorn 209 is pretty much just as expensive at $30 for 5/8ths of a lb, plus you still have to pay the HazMat fee.

I might buy some of the pre-measured charges to give it a try, we'll see, but at this point, I'm thinking I might just stick with Triple 7 or Pyrodex for my backup gun. Maybe if I didn't have a Savage...

[nimrodrx]

BH209 vs BM3 is not apples to apples.

10 oz of BH209 is volumetricly equivelant to 1 lb of Triple 7.

[esmd]

Nimro, so you don't use Blackhorn 209 by volume?

[nimrodrx]

No, I am measuring it by volume. BH209 is just considerably more bulky than T7. It occupies more space.

Once the word gets out, BH209 will be the death of all other current BP subs.

[esmd]

Hmmm, interesting.

I really have to find a way to get around this open breech issue.