|
|
Post by goldwinginggunner on Aug 19, 2007 11:11:01 GMT -5
I have not purchased an in line muzzle loader. I really like the TC Pro Hunter because of the break open design and the ability to change barrels to center fire. (or others) The State of Illinois will allow smokeless in rifles designed for their use. One of the states I would like to hunt allows only loose black powder (or subs) and other restrictions. but they allow center fire. (Colorado) I have also looked closely at the Savage 10 ML and I really like the idea of smokeless. There are a few downsides to the Savage but over all it is a quality rifle that will meet most of my needs. I am looking for your opinions and comparisons of these two rifles.
|
|
|
|
Post by DW on Aug 19, 2007 11:54:02 GMT -5
I had an Encore, not the Pro Hunter before I owned the Savage, the MLII gets my vote because I dislike the nuisance of BP or Pyrodex, plus the MLII has the advantage in velocity and flatter trajectory with smokeless. If you really like the Pro Hunter that much you can always send it to SMI and get a smokeless barrel made for the Pro Hunter.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldwinginggunner on Aug 19, 2007 12:14:45 GMT -5
My reasons for the interest in the pro hubter is changing barrels and break open for cleaning with quick release breech lock. Sure not the cost! Setting up with scope and supplies will run around 1K dollars to start.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldwinginggunner on Aug 19, 2007 16:09:49 GMT -5
Something to add to the tread. My instincts tell me to buy a gun for the need. That is a muzzle loader for deer in Illinois and a center fire for Colorado. I am not sure if TC's pro hunter is really good at either... Well maybe good as a muzzle loader. I am exited about the TC Icon!
|
|
|
|
Post by wilmsmeyer on Aug 19, 2007 19:59:23 GMT -5
I used a Thunderhawk, then a Knight Disc and then an ML10. I really liked the BP guns and wouldn't feel severly handicapped if I HAD to use my older thunderhawk or the Knight. I still have and shoot them both.
However, the benefits of smokeless are really exponential IMO. Ease of cleaning, variety of quality propellants and power that rivals the biggest centerfires. OR....you can reduce the power to your needs. Usually the "reduced" loads....the ones that ONLY go 2200-2300 fps are very, very mild on the shoulder. With the "light" loads, the ballistics are much better then what I achieved shooting 150 gr of BP in my Knight which kicked to high heaven.
I never much minded the kicking-to-high-heaven as long as the groups came with it which they did in the Knight at 2000 fps. Now, I'd guess that with my ML10 and 250 gr loads at 2700-2800 fps and 300 gr loads at 2500-2600 fps the recoil is similar to my old heavy Knight loads. However, these loads are faster, flatter, cleaner, easier to reload fouled, and just as accurate.
Out to 200 yds, for deer, you can get by with most anything we're talking about here. On the off chance you need some more range, you'll find it with the Savage. However, you better do your homework with load development and make sure that you and your load are capable in stretching the distance.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldwinginggunner on Aug 19, 2007 23:40:53 GMT -5
Hey out there, please excuse my typo's. These old finger are not used to keyboards. Thanks Wilmsmeyer. Home work is what I am doing now. I love the idea of smokeless powder. Muzzle loading with smokeless reminds me of working up loads with brass. I can not imagine loads from the muzzle at 2700 fps! I think the Savage 10 ML II may be the best thing out there. I just happen to have some IMR 4198 and some H110. Do you know of any good data with Hornady 250 gr. SST 45 caliber? I would also be interested in the 300 gr. 45 caliber Hornady loads. (MMP sabots) My local dealer has both rifles in stock. I just need to make up my mind what to buy. (I like the laminate 10 ML over the composite) Not to take anything away from the TC (and S&W) but Savage has them beat.
|
|
|
|
Post by DW on Aug 20, 2007 13:55:16 GMT -5
|
|
JS
Eight Pointer
Posts: 217
|
Post by JS on Aug 20, 2007 19:33:02 GMT -5
I'd buy the Savage for the Illinois hunting, I have and wouldn't even consider anything else. My son has an Encore pro-hunter and while it shoots very well, you're giving up 300fps minimum to the Savage, plus having the hassle of messy cleanups after every shooting session. And, if you like to shoot a lot, the T7 and other BP subs are way more expensive than typical smokeless powders for the Savage. The Encore might be more versatile with it's switch barrel capability, but by the time you buy it with the BP and centerfire barrels you could have a Savage plus a M70 or M700!
|
|
|
|
Post by ozark on Aug 20, 2007 20:07:42 GMT -5
I can't speak for the BP rifles. As an old man lifetime hunter I bought a Savage MLII so I could hunt the ML season here. I always avoided the BP rifles because of the cleaning hassle. I quickly discovered that the Savage with book loads provided me with all the rifle I needed to kill deer at the ranges I shoot here in the hills. It is accurate, easy to maintain and fun to shoot. I have not shot at a deer yet but have total confidence that when I do I will succeed.
Yes, it is rather expensive if you put a high quality scope on it and fill a box full of all the things you just can't do without. But the rewards are great and having all these friends I have never met is priceless. Finding a Savage owner who is dis-satisfied is like looking for hens teeth. Buy a Savage and use those young fingers to set that keyboard on fire. I peeped at your age. To be that age today I would......Can't go back. The years we waste without a Savage are like sprinkling salt in a sand box. You can't get um back.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldwinginggunner on Aug 21, 2007 12:29:12 GMT -5
Thanks again Ozark, Most of the expense with any new rifle is those can't live withouts. I accept these expenses and they are easy to justify. When I priced the TC pro hunter.... well that is another story. It is a quality rifle, you can add center fire barrels and if you want there is a after market barrel that will fire smokeless. (see DW post) Put a high quality scope, an extra barrel and shooting supplies then the cost is $1500 to $1800. I can buy three good quality guns for that amount including a 10 ML 2. Well at least two guns! (can't live withouts included)
|
|
|
|
Post by tcmech on Sept 5, 2007 14:17:17 GMT -5
The other thing about the T/C is that even though you can buy other barrels you will still need to buy scopes for each barrell that you want them on. The Savage is an awesome muzzleloader, I would definitely buy a 10ml2 over the T/C, and use the money saved to go buy a good quality centerfire deer rifle rather than a new barrel, new forearm, new scope. Just my 2 cents. Craig
|
|
|
|
Post by Underclocked on Sept 8, 2007 10:31:24 GMT -5
Speaking of hen's teeth, I wonder if the Knight KP1 will be a suitable candidate for an SMI barrel?
|
|
|
|
Post by Robin Hood on Sept 10, 2007 13:47:59 GMT -5
I have not purchased an in line muzzle loader. I really like the TC Pro Hunter because of the break open design and the ability to change barrels to center fire. (or others) The State of Illinois will allow smokeless in rifles designed for their use. One of the states I would like to hunt allows only loose black powder (or subs) and other restrictions. but they allow center fire. (Colorado) I have also looked closely at the Savage 10 ML and I really like the idea of smokeless. There are a few downsides to the Savage but over all it is a quality rifle that will meet most of my needs. I am looking for your opinions and comparisons of these two rifles. If you'll be hunting colorado any time soon, i'd go with the savage as TC's do not have a good reputation for shooting conicals very well. With the savage, you can shoot smokeless and/or blackpowder/ subs. |
|
|
|
Post by DannoBoone on Sept 12, 2007 20:40:08 GMT -5
gwg - I have the old Encore and the Savage 10ML (stainless/laminate).
Having the Encore can lead to more expense than you will ever dream.
One of the top selling points to the Encore is that you can add barrels.
What if you need to use two different rifles at the same time? Then ya
add another receiver, buttstock, and forearm -- yadda, yadda, yadda.
SCOPE, too! (Guess that has already been mentioned.) Want an extra
barrel to shoot short magnums? No responsible barrel company will
make one for the Encore. After the chamber is reamed, there is not
enough metal to safely hold it and fit in the Encore receiver. I now have
two receivers w/buttstocks, two factory barrels and two customs; ALL
scoped! Total price? - - don't want to even THINK about it!!
My 2 cents worth is to get the stainless laminate 10ML, then get the
stainless Savage CF of your choice (the Classic certainly appears
like a winner -- dunno if it's available in stainless/laminate or not
but that would be my choice). Nicely scope both and you will be on
a WAYYYYYYY less expensive route than mine! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by encoreguy on Sept 16, 2007 20:56:08 GMT -5
Another option, if you are going to buy an Encore and have any desire to hunt with handguns, buy it as a pistol so you can legally use it as a handgun and rifle. I wish I would have done it that way, even more useful. Should you decide to go with the Savage the guys over at the smokeless section are worth alot in their knowledge. Both are great platforms and the Encore can be made to shoot well and Savage guns will shoot right out of the box. The prohunter is a very nice gun, but a bit over priced in my opinion. For that price it should have a black powder barrel and a centerfire barrel! I love my Encores, but the Savage is a very nice gun. If you don't want to shoot smokeless, I feel that the Encore is a better way to go, especially when it comes time to clean.
|
|
|
|
Post by DannoBoone on Sept 24, 2007 20:05:23 GMT -5
Another option, if you are going to buy an Encore and have any desire to hunt with handguns, buy it as a pistol so you can legally use it as a handgun and rifle. Ditto! I did that last winter with my SECOND Encore receiver, simply because none of my suppliers could find a configuration for a stainless receiver for rifle; just pistol. However, I now have the LEGAL option of placing a pistol barrel on said receiver, not that it is a bit different from a rifle receiver -- just paper-work legal.  |
|
|
|
Post by redhawk1 on Oct 3, 2007 6:10:10 GMT -5
I have been shooting an Encore for about 5 or 6 years now, before that I shot Knight and many other M/L's. I have now have an Encore Pro-hunter and it shoots like a dream. I thought I would never buy a different M/L, well I just bought a Savage Smokeless to try out. Even if the Savage works out for me, I will always keep my Encore Pro-hunter, because it is such a great shooting M/L. I say get what feels good to you, but keep it at the Encore Pro-hunter or the Savage. Good luck and have a blast.
|
|
johnd
Eight Pointer
Posts: 213
|
Post by johnd on Nov 23, 2007 19:20:05 GMT -5
Same as above get which ever gun feels the best to you. Savage or Encore can't go wrong with either one. Good Luck
|
|
|
|
Post by mshm99 on Nov 25, 2007 13:40:55 GMT -5
With the encore, by the time you by a high quality Bullberry or Begara barrel you can buy another gun! I got the Savage several years ago and am not dissapointed. Shoot the Barnes Original 300 grain and VV n-120.
|
|
|
|
Post by jbmabrey on Dec 2, 2007 5:58:10 GMT -5
I own an ML II and an Encore pistol with a 50 cal. black powder pistol barrel. Both are fun, and a treat to shoot---if you stay away from the triple 7.
crud ring, smell, over rated and it realy bothers my allergies. I was fortunate to buy 4 bottles of black mag 3-very good product but not available until next year.
Both of these guns have their positives and negatives. For me the bottom line is they are both effective and fun. I took a small doe in Maryland early muzzleloader season with the handgun at 35 yards 90 gr. bm3 with 300 gr. XTP-what a rush.
I also took a 5 point buck opening day in Maryland-a 65 yard shot through dense brush with a 2 foot window-saw the buck moving slowly left to right with only one possible shot-held in small window and when he stepped into it-275 Barnes XPB over 58 gr. of N-120 put him down on the spot.
Both are good choices-for just ML I would go with the Savage. You can always use it during gun season. But, the encore pistol allows me to shoot 44 mag in Delaware handgun and shotgun season and hunt varmints with .223 and switch to ml pistol barrel to hunt Md. I personally would figure out a way to get both. I traded 3 of my older guns for the Savage and scrounged together the money for the tc and bp barrel.
Good luck in your decision.
|
|
|
|
Post by DC54 on Dec 8, 2007 21:22:27 GMT -5
I have not purchased an in line muzzle loader. I really like the TC Pro Hunter because of the break open design and the ability to change barrels to center fire. (or others) The State of Illinois will allow smokeless in rifles designed for their use. One of the states I would like to hunt allows only loose black powder (or subs) and other restrictions. but they allow center fire. (Colorado) I have also looked closely at the Savage 10 ML and I really like the idea of smokeless. There are a few downsides to the Savage but over all it is a quality rifle that will meet most of my needs. I am looking for your opinions and comparisons of these two rifles. If you plan on hunting colorado's muzzle loader season, You will NOT be allowed to use Sabots, Smokeless powder, Scopes, Pellet powder. During centerfire season, You can use the sabots, scopes and such on your muzzleloader. The question is, Has anyone even used a conical with blackpowder with the savage? With the Pro hunter you will run into the typical TC " Will it shoot a conical or not?" Its a toss a coin into the air and hope, kind of deal. |
|
daworz
Eight Pointer
Posts: 134
|
Post by daworz on Dec 25, 2007 22:26:39 GMT -5
Buy a Savage ML II,and get the best? And you wount need any other barrles, just my 2 cents worth, Plus the pro hunters are way over priced. And the you have to spend hundreds of dollars for another barrel, But buy what you want, they get alot of press thats why there so popular, guess thats why they charge so much got to pay for that advertising?
|
|
