Somebody-Anybody-Need Ideas

[rooster257r]

Kinda new here but I`m sure there are plenty of ideas. Going to Co. for Elk w/ML BP. Can`t use my smokeless, well I could but I don`t want to put BP in it. I`ve got my Omega that I used before I got the Savage but I only shot deer with it in Ks. I would like to pick some brains on shooting conicals with 777 loose powder. Some of what I read here say that Powerbelts aren`t that good for Elk. What are the options?

[wilmsmeyer]

Can you use sabots? If so I would try Any of the copper bullets, the 300 gr Barnes Original or any hard cast solid 300 gr+.

If you have to use full bore bullets and your shots will be 150 yds and closer, play with some heavy lead bullets like the Great Plains or maxi-balls. The heavier Power Belts at BP speeds may be OK too. I would pay attention to how they fit. Not so much for accuracy but to assure they stay on the charge after a day of running around and jarring your gun as you walk, ride or fall down while climbing slippery hills.

Also....don't know your experience with all the substitute powders....or black powder itself. If it were me, I would stay with black powder. This is only my opinion. I'm not sure that there is a more consistent propellant that ignites as easy.

I guess I've shot every sub but T7. Black powder was by far the most consistent velocity wise...although a little slower....and the most easy to find accuracy with. I've had bad experiences with Pyro loose and pellets....especially when gun has been left loaded more then a day.

Just my 2 cents

[esmd]

Agreed with Wilms, I don't think there's a need to use conicals, unless Colorado doesn't permit sabots, which I'm not sure about.

If they do permit sabots, and if you can get any of the heavier Barnes bullets to shoot with reasonable accuracy (300gr Original, 285gr Spitfire, 290gr TMZ, 300gr MZ Expander) over at least 100 grains of Triple 7, Pyrodex, or even real black powder, you'll be fine out to 150 yards or so, energy wise. Just make sure to check and know your trajectory.

If they don't, I'll defer to Wilms on the conical advice, I've always thought him to be a pretty knowledgeable guy and would put a lot of stock in his advice.

[deadeye]

fyi-colorado does not allow sabots or scopes

[esmd]

Geez, they really are in the dark ages out there.

[wilmsmeyer]

Well if no sabots or scopes are allowed, you won't be taking any real long shots.

Real big slugs that fit your bore well....reliable propellant (black powder for me)...and 4-5 inch groups at 100 yds would do it.

If it were me...with what I have at my disposal:

My disc rifle loaded with black powder and what ever full bore conical weighing at least 350 gr.....that stayed put once seated....shot the best. As I said earlier....I wouldn't rule out the biggest powerbelts for this application. Barrel would wear a condom.

Face it, you won't be shooting more then 1600-1700 fps MAX. Any of the big chunks of lead will work fine IMO...as long as they meet your accuracy criteria. I would try my best for an archery angle to guarentee success.

Shouldn't be too tough.

[rooster257r]

Thanks everybody for your ideas. Deadeye is dead on (pun) about sabots and scopes. Also only loose powder is allowed. I have read on these posts that someone puts bore butter in the plastic base of the power belts. Would this screw up the powder? Where do I find the Great Plains bullets? Wilmsmeyer, what do you mean "stayed put once seated".

[wilmsmeyer]

By "stay put" I mean that a conical that isn't snug can move off the charge.

If I wasn't sure if my conicals were tight enough to stay on the charge during extended climbs, occational jars to the gun..etc.....I would constantly check it when I stopped for a break.

Take the ramrod and just check now and then. You never notice stuff like this at the range....just load and shoot.

Sabots are usually way tighter then a greases conical full bore slug. They can come off the charge over time during periods of activity.

My .54 thunderhawk and 425 great plains bullets taught me this once.

[deadeye]

rooster257r,are you going outfitted,i beleive the draw for ml is in april-may for co. ,however to an earlier question,i would not put grease underneath a powerbelt,your omega should be fine,with a little work you can get to 150yds & 200 is not impossible with a primitive setup. the great plains bullets over powerbelts anyday. good luck

[KeithLewis]

Good luck trying to shoot conicals out of an Omega. Most will not shoot them well and many claim it is due to the QLA muzzle. I have shot powerbelts out of my Omega with fair results. I have not tried solid lead conicals as I have several other rifles more capable of shooting them ie. three Whites, Knight KRB, and a T/C Hawken, and a NEF Huntsman. If you are spending the money for a Colorado hunt I would suggest spending the extra for a good conical shooting rifle as well.

[rooster257r]

Deadeye; No Outfitter. My cousin lives in Fort Collins, probably killed more Elk than most people have seen I`ve hunted there since 1966 w/rifle & bow. We decided to hunt MZ last year but Cuz had a 4 way bypass & Doc said nogo. We put in for tags on the West Side for points and then we`ll take 2nd choice for cow tags in Cherokee Park area. We`ve hunted North Park around Walden for many years but that land is being bought up by the Millionaires. Took my best 6x6 there in 1970. We just go up with wall tents & set up camp and walk it from there. The bad thing about unit 7 (Cherokee Park) is it`s a high CWD unit. We got a cow 3 years ago that tested positive. That was a bummer with a bow. Our apps are already in, the dead line is April 1st. Enough rambling. I will find some great plains bullets and play with them. Thanks Dick

[deadeye]

like kl said,i have witnessed 1.5moa groups @ 100 w/omega&powerbelts,have not any experience also w/conicals in the omega,but somewhere in that safe is a tc new englander that holds 1.0moa in the right hands w/gp 385gns. i have hunted the davis peak area for approx 15 yrs. 12 w/a bow. i sure do miss the old "coffee pot" in walden.

[Underclocked]

You might slug the bore of that Omega to get land-2-land dimension, then order a sampling of conicals from Bull Shop. I would say stick to the 460 grainers and below. The UC Short was meant to do well in twists from 1:32 and faster, your Omega is 1:28 I'm sure.

And good luck with that QLA. You will probably also find that shooting heavy conicals from an Omega is not such a terribly pleasant thing to do.

[bubba]

I think that colorado also has a 2 bore length too does it not ?

[rooster257r]

Bubba; I don`t know for sure about the 2 bore length. I`m guessing that you mean the length is twice that of the bore size. If you shoot powerbelts do you measure the plastic skirt?

[Underclocked]

If you are going to try Powerbelts, get some 348 grain or heavier. But don't buy a lot - they are expensive and may not shoot all that well from your Omega.

Bull Shop's offerings - home.mchsi.com/~rltsr/bullshop.jpg . In the .504 sizes, any of his bullets from the 500 grain N373 and downward in weight will meet the 2X length limit. You should slug the bore of that Omega and order his sized to just slightly over the land to land dimension of the bore. I'm guessing .501 would be about right, but it's better not to guess. His come lubed with a very nice lube of his own making. Would suggest you order a sampler package of the lighter weight .504 examples - from the 400 grain Lyman to the 460 grain NEx. Be sure to sample some UC Shorts.

Just email him and tell him your needs...

[rooster257r]

Thanks Underclocked. I have some Harvester Sabor Tooth 350 gr. that measure .500 but length is short. Also some Great Plains 385 gr. that measure .509 but also short. Some maxi hunters 350 gr. that measure .502 also short. Haven`t shot any of these yet. I was going to shoot them with T-7 ffg but after reading about BH209 I decided to wait and get some of that. But then I might shoot the T-7 and get sighted in and then see what the difference would be with BH-209. It`s just the thought of cleaning after every shot with T-7. After shooting my Savage last Fall on deer cleaning is a pain. If BH-209 shoots as clean as they say I might take the Savage, I just didn`t want to crud it up. Again thanks for your advice. Dick

[Underclocked]

Just to be clear, the length of 2x bore diameter is a maximum length limit, not a minimum length limit. If your bullet is .50 caliber, it can be no longer than 1" to be legal in CO and a few other places.

[rooster257r]

Thanks again UC. That finally answers that question. E-mailed Dan at Bull Shop and he doesn`t send sampler packs anymore. You can buy whatever you want as long as it is 100 bullets at a time. I guess you order 4 different bullets, 25 to a pack, find which one shoots the best and make crappie jigs out of the rest. Thanks again Dick

[art338wm]

Rooster, Please take this advice with caution, as I'm going off old memory from when I was in my learning curve with my 209x50 Encore waaaay over 10 years ago.

If I remember correctly conicals work best with in a certain rate of twist (1:48"?) that I think your Omega may be to fast for producing optimum accuracy, but again I am not 100% sure of this. Do a search on White Muzzleloaders as they were always advertised as being by design excellent with Whites "No Excuse Conicals" so you may get some valuble info from there.

Also post your same question on www.modernmuzzleloder.com
There are if I recall correctly allot of White muzzleloder fans on the modern inline forum of the website. Also a additional website that might have some good info for you about obtaining optimum results with conicals might be www.brbullet.com
They make and sell conicals. The site contains allot of info concerning proper use of conicals and how to maximize performance with them out of your ML.

I hope some of this will help, and best of luck in your upcoming elk hunt, be carefull and come home in one non-plaster clad piece.
Arthur.

[frontiergander]

Should just buy a used CVA and take that. They are not picky when it comes to shooting conicals. 338 platinum would be a good elk bullet. The Platinums hold up great.

405g copper series powerbelt also holds up great.

The skirt/tip is not included with the bullet length, nor is the little nipple at the base of the bullet. 405g powerbelt will be the legal limit.