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Post by squawsach on Oct 26, 2004 19:53:12 GMT -5
Hi, I would like to try my hand at building a muzzleloader. I would like to stay away from the commonly availible kits. What I have in mind is a .32 cal squirrel rifle built from parts availible on the internet. I would like to hear any suggestions on barrels, barrel length, rate of twist, stock blanks, triggers, locks, breech plugs, and any thing else you can think of. I'm not trying to make a copy of a certain style of rifle. It will have a traditional look but it will be a one of a kind built just for me. I've some experience with firearms and do my own smith work on modern firearms. I've been hunting with an off the shelf, common, inline muzzleloader for years. I just want to build my own and I could use some advice. Thanks in advance.
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Post by MarkKw on Oct 27, 2004 5:22:50 GMT -5
I'd highly suggest using a Long Hammock barrel and a Chambers lock. There are several brands of triggers and you'll need to pick what fits your likes and style of rifle you plan to build. 1:48 is probably going to be the twist, it's what I have in my .32 and it shoot quite well. Mine is a 28" long 15/16" OD and it definitely has some weight to it, holds nice for off hand but gets down right heavy for all day carry. If this is a dedicated .32 rifle, I'd suggest going with a 3/4" OD to save on weight, could order a longer barrel and trim it down a little at a time till you get the hold you want too. You didn't say if you are going flint or perc but mine's a flint and loads of fun!
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Post by squawsach on Oct 27, 2004 6:19:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. The rifle I plan on building will be percussion.
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Post by Desert Rat on Oct 27, 2004 15:03:56 GMT -5
Yes you definately need a cure for that inline-disease!!
Rifle-building can be difficult than you think...so have a good plan, get lots of books and take your time. Listen to the advice carefully of others who can and do build rifles.
Good luck and have fun!
Rat
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Post by squawsach on Oct 27, 2004 19:42:21 GMT -5
Desert Rat and MarkKW, thanks again for the replies. I've been surfing the net for parts and I've gotten a few ideas. I found a small Siler lock that I'm leaning towards and a Davis double set trigger. Barrels? I'm still looking. I'll take a look at a Long Hammock barrel. I found a (patented ?) breech plug I kind of like. Sights? I'm lost.
Dumb Questions: What is the best way to hold the barrel in the stock?
The only side lock I've had exposure to was a TC Hawken. The Hawken had a hook breech plug and the barrel could be easily removed for cleaning. Is this typical or do traditional muzzleloaders basically get cleaned with the barrel in place. It doesn't look as if the breech plug I have in mind is set up for quick take down.
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Post by MarkKw on Oct 28, 2004 5:13:48 GMT -5
Depends on what you want. I'm not a "traditionalist" completely as I prefer a more modern shaped half stock like my Lyman Deerstalker. I have a hard time finding stock styles that fit me and I like the half stock with the hook breech for easy cleaning, pop the wedge and drop the touch hole into a bucket of hot water and scrub away. Also allows for easy cleaning of the lock. On my other barrels I picked up hooked breech plugs from RMC that fit the receiver tang used on T/C, CVA, Traditions, Lyman, ect. Aside from cleaning is the ability to swap barrels in seconds for differnt hunting/shooting.
I've changed my likes on sights several times as I try different things depending on what my eyes like. For rifle hunting, I prefer a fiber optic front sight with a small bead diameter because it's easier for me to pick up. For target, I like a relatively thin blade front with a square face that is non-glare. On the rear, I like generally like a nice deep rectangular notch sized to the front blade and a U shape notch sized to the front FO bead. I've tried a variety of combinations and it seems that everyone differs greatly on what works for them and what doesn't. One way to try a whole bunch of sights is to go to a gun show and hold all kinds of rifles of all different makes. My target sight combination I used on the .40 is based on my Russian 91/30 military rifle. The combo on my .32 (rear breech mounted peep with FO front) is based on a Finnish WWI sniper rifle with the exception they used a glass bead front. On the shotgun I like a brass post on the front. I like all my rifle sights to be adjustable and anchored in dovetail slots too.
Since you're not going 100% traditional, you have a lot of room to do what you want and what you like and most importantly what fits you the best.
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Birddog6
Eight Pointer
"If it Ain't a Smokin' & a Stinkin', it's Merely an Imitation"
Posts: 161
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Post by Birddog6 on Oct 30, 2004 10:50:27 GMT -5
IMHO..... (which generally means nuthin...) 1: Pick out a rifle or style you like & base it of that rifle. The reason I say this is the Parts have to a work together. If you go jumpin all over the place, they are not going to work together & you will expend allot of $ buy other parts & have lots of parts left ya don't need. Been there done that... 2: Get a set of plans & go by them. Don't think ya need them ? maybe not. But about 1/2 of the rifles I build are for guys that have tried it before & couldn't do it. Building a Lyman, T/C, CVA "Assembly Kit" is not the same as the rifle "Parts" kits you see on TOW & Petatonica & etc. The guys get these parts kits & are totally overwhelmed.... 3: Buy the plans & stock & essentials first, you can do sights later & at any time. TAKE YOUR TIME, measure 4011 times & cut once..... 4: I would go with a Jim Chambers lock regardless of type. It has a Lifetime Warranty on parts & they are the best. 5: Barrel twist I would use would be a 1-38 to a 1-48 in a .32 cal. I think Jim Goodoien makes the best smalbore barrel, the next choice would be a Orion, then Rice, then Green Mtn. most likely. Also I would not spend allot of $ on the stock blank with this being your first rifle. Buy a plain stock with a good solid grain structure & go from there. Most of the first ones guys build are usually not too good with many flaws, but there are exceptions to this. Good Luck  Birddog6 www.custommuzzleloaders.comPS: If ya find a "Real Deal" on something......let it go.... There is usually a real good reason it is such a deal & normally that means it is flawed, defective or something is wrong with it. Otherwise someone would already be using it ! ha ha !  |
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Post by squawsach on Oct 30, 2004 20:06:28 GMT -5
Thanks Birddog6. This is a great forum. I have been looking all over the internet and I was wondering about compatibility between parts. I will give strong consideration to your advice and continue to search for the best solution to my problem of wanting to build a great small caliber muzzleloader on my first try. But, If I do screw up, I'll probally post about it and ya can stear me back in the right direction. Thanks again.
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Birddog6
Eight Pointer
"If it Ain't a Smokin' & a Stinkin', it's Merely an Imitation"
Posts: 161
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Post by Birddog6 on Oct 30, 2004 21:15:13 GMT -5
Well, I don't mean to be discouraging, but you are not the first I have encountered wanting to do exactly as you are doing. It sounds great & it is fun to find all the parts here & then & make a rifle. But when the reality comes to life it can actually end up a total mess.  I'll bet I have had at least ? 25 rifles in boxes brought to me in the past 35 years & they guys say "Can you do anything with this "? And my usually answer is No, because it is envolves problems in building that just will not mathematically work out. Nutherwords you can't get a 1" barrel a 3/8" RR under it & room for screws in 1.25" of wood. I don't care how ya set it up, it don't fit. Same way with the lock, guy gives ya a lock ? that is super. Will it work ? hard to say if ya don't have a plan & Know what ya need. If it were me, I would go to TOW & start looking a theeir Rifes for Sale in the Flintlock & Percussion parts. Don't matter what the ignition is, look at the STYLES, not the stripes & fancy work, look at the styles, shapes, etc. Get an idea of what you see there you like. Then I would go to a few ML shops & maybe if you are lucky you are near Nashville (Tip Curtis Frontier Shop, Friendship or Dixons or Tracks or someplace that will have a lot of dif styles & then you can really FEEL the rifles & shoulder. That means more tha looking at them, shouldering them. Good example is I really love the looks of a real fullstock Hawken..... But I don't like the balance, weight, muzzle hang, not a thing about it Except the looks, thus I have never owned one & never will. Same way for a TN rifle, I love the looks but don't like shooting them...... I bought allot of muzzleloaders in my life before I finally found what I like to look at is not what really fits me... then I sold all of those rifles & started buying & building what I could shoot & what fit me. The only one I kept of them was the first one I built back in the 70's & the only reason I kept it is because I can look at it in amazement, laugh & say "Dang, did I really do that ?" "What a mess" !! ha ha ! If I was you I would study them a bit, got to ALL of the vender sights you can find & look at the rifle. Got to any rondy or BP shoot & see all you can & check them out. Then order the parts to build them ALL from one place if ya can, with exception of the lock. (get it from Jim Chambers Flintlocks) This way when you buy the parts all at one place, chances of it all coming together are about 75% better than a hit & miss way. If you are within a days drive of Nashville, TN, it is well worth the trip over to Cross Plains TN to Tip Curtis's shop. He will have about 40 rifles there built & 15 more in the process & is a world of knowledge & has a smorgasborg of parts there. You can lay an entire gun out right there on the counter, pick & choose every single piece right then & there & know it is correct & it will all work. And he will be there to guide you & suggest options & etc. No he is not the cheapest place but I never go for cheapest, I go for the best part & a for sure thing.... & I have always had success with Tip & his parts. Chuck Dixon's shop would be another good place to go if you are within a days drive of his shop in PA. Hope ya find what ya want. Birddog6 www.custommuzzleloaders.com |
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Post by squawsach on Oct 30, 2004 22:15:19 GMT -5
thanks Birddog6. A trip to TN. may be in my near future.
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Post by squawsach on Oct 31, 2004 11:34:33 GMT -5
Well, after looking around and trying to piece together a parts list for my future rifle, I came to the conclusion that I had better learn to crawl before I try to run. TOW has a kit which I think I will be happy with. It's the Ohio half stock rifle in .32 cal. I like the looks of it and I think it will be better for me to learn with than trying to piece one together. I would again like to thank everyone for your replys to my post. The subtle warnings about not getting in over my head were taken to heart. I'll get a little experience with the kit (standard wood) and then I'll try to get creative.
Does anyone have any comments on this kit?
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Birddog6
Eight Pointer
"If it Ain't a Smokin' & a Stinkin', it's Merely an Imitation"
Posts: 161
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Post by Birddog6 on Oct 31, 2004 12:47:25 GMT -5
I think that is a wise move. I still think the trip to Cross Plains, TN would be highly advantagous for you & Tthis way you can Shoulder the rifle & see if you like the feel of it. Also you can lay out the entire rifle there & SEE what you are getting & pick your own stock & etc.
Only thing I see may be a problem for ya on the Vincent is installing the rib & drilling & tapping the holes & also doing the drum, however, with a lil guidance & a good book (Gunsmiths of Grenville County) you should be able to do it. I will mention there is no room for error on either part, as a misque on the drilling & you have ruined the barrel. TOW does offer to do some of the machine work (for a additional fee) & I know the guy that does it & he does superb work.
If I ordered from TOW, I would be SURE they have all the parts before I buy the kit (make them check) as if not you most likely will not get it all. The last 3 kits sent to me from them were all missing parts for Months & caused me lots of headaches......
One consideration on the Vincent is if you are a stocky guy or a large frame, the buttplate on the Vincent is sharp & pointed & not comfortable. I think it was made for thin fellers... ;D
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DaveK
Eight Pointer
Posts: 150
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Post by DaveK on Oct 31, 2004 18:11:02 GMT -5
My Dad built a Vincent and it was his first gun. It was a "kit", much as TOW sells. If my Dad can build a gun, anyone can. I think it came out pretty good too. You will find a Vincent, is great for small bores, but for big bores that narrow, sharp crescent butt plate will bite! They work best for me to be shot "off" the shoulder, between the bicep and actual shoulder, just hooking the toe of the gun into me arm pit. I do shoot a couple of old Ohio guns and that is what works best for me.JMHO I know if you are close to any place that Birddogs suggested it would be a very worth while trip! But, you may find more goodies that you NEED! hehe
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