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Post by MarkKw on Aug 16, 2004 6:21:29 GMT -5
I got some of this cheap Turkish 8mm 154 grain FMJ surplus ammo. Dates vary from 1941 to 1945. Some of the cases cracked at the mouth so I decided to de-mil these. Upon removing the bullet, I took note to the extremely hard crimp applied to the case with what looks like a finger / jaw type device. The crimp was hard enough to deform the bullet but do it symetrically.
Next thing I noted was the burn rate on the powder in the open air....like fuse powder! It took several seconds (didn't think to time it) to burn off the charge from one case. Powder is a square thin flake with dark gray/black a shiny metalic appearance.
Anyone know what they used for powder in these things and what the reason is behind the unreasonable crimping force?
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Post by Douglas Blair on Aug 16, 2004 8:17:26 GMT -5
Mark I've seen this type of powder before. It is some sort of smokeless and does burn much faster in the case. Almost all smokeless will burn like a slow fuse if poured out on the ground.
Most of the military ammo has a solid crimp on the bullet and the age could have had something to do with the cases splitting. The solid crimp was to help prevent the bullet coming loose in the heat of battle. A solid crimp is also a good idea if the ammo is to be used in full auto rifles. Most were also water proofed by lacquer around the primer and bullet.
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Post by MarkKw on Aug 17, 2004 6:11:33 GMT -5
This is crimped to the point of deforming the bullet jacket though. If I get a chance later today, I'll try to get some pics and email them to you. Never seen anything crimed like this.
The powder burn just got my attention since it was extremely slow, much slower (2-3 times) than say an equal amount of IMR 4350 or 5010. Burning off these IMR powders you get a FFFFUUUUUSSSSSHHHH and it it's gone, this turkish stuff gives you a slow fizzle that goes on forever. Seems to work fine for pushing the bullet though, definitely got some kick too. Just curious on what was used in these and why.
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Post by Douglas Blair on Aug 17, 2004 6:26:02 GMT -5
Mark, I'd like to see some pictures of those bullets. As for the powder, smokeless has came a long way in the last decade. Who knows what type of smokeless they used in those cartridges.
I have seen some 303 British ammo which the powder was in stick form that was as long as the cartridge case. I think it was called cordite(sp).
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Post by JACKJR60 on Aug 18, 2004 1:02:16 GMT -5
MarkKw, I can't tell you about the tight crimp but I can tell you that Turk ammo is corrosive, so give your rifle a good cleaning after shooting this stuff. It is also quite potent ammo, the results of that slow burn powder. I bought 200 rounds of it and it shot very well. That is one thing there is no shortage of, 8mm Mauser surplus ammo. Mark, I did a little research into the Turk powder and it seems it has a very high nitrogen content and after the war they sold off the surplus powder to farmers to use as fertilizer.. I don't know maybe they grew popcorn with it.
Jack
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Post by Desert Rat on Aug 23, 2004 15:00:22 GMT -5
I believe that the bullet was formed/made with the crimping groove, and not when the case was crimped onto the bullet.
There is other surplus ammo like this, Polish 7.62X25mm comes to mind. As the Polish ammo is VERY accurate, and the Turk ammo is reasonably accurate, I don't believe the bullet was deformed when crimped. Also, the neck of the cartridge case would be quite deformed if that much force was used, and you can see that it is not. In fact it does not even follow the shape of the crimp groove in the bullet. If you take a close look at the case mouth, you can see that the case neck just has a normal crimp, same as you would get with a Lee crimp-die, or see on a commercial factory load.
I have been shooting lots of the Turk 7.92X57mm ammo for years, and I dont' cull out the cracked cases. I did at first, but then found it works fine for "plinking", and there is really no danger to use it as is. Of course if I come across one that has a VERY large, long crack I won't use it. But a little bit of splitting, it doesn't matter.
Also, I believe the cracked necks are just the result of a poor quality of brass and age, I don't think the crimping process had anything to do with it.
Rat
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I was gonna say sumpin' but I forgot what it was! 