Factory guns will shoot.

[herman]

Had my scope to act up on me that I had on my remington 700 classic,so changed the scope and look what I got.
The target with 4 shots I think my excitement got the best of me was going for a 5 shot group but must have jerked.The black target I had 2 bullets left and even they did pretty good at 300 yds.The bottom group on the black target was a new load I was trying in my 308 at 300.

[herman]

Got to try out the above load friday morning,I had tried a 120 gr hornady spitzer last year on a doe at 200 yds and it worked great.This was the hornady 120 HP,both deer dropped at the shot.The doe at 140 yds and the buck at 100 yds.Will probably try the 130 gr hornady or 140 BT next year.

[DW]

Nice buck, Herman

[whyohe]

nice job herman!

[scott7m]

speaking of factory guns shooting... i have a marlin 917VS in 17HMR.. factory gun, no other bedding done, i did replace the trigger, it is topped with a leupold 4-12.. It consistenly shoots 5 shot groups at 110 yards in the low .3's .. I shot my best group the other day at .283 ........ it is the best shooting gun i have by far..

[herman]

If you have the range try that 17 shooting at clay birds at 200 and 300 yds.Sure is fun,sometimes it dosen,t bust them just puts a hole through the center.
I have the 93R17 and it won't shoot worth a dime most days.Looks like you are doing quit well with yours.Nice groups.

[briar]

very nice pics.

[art338wm]

Gr8 pics congrats on the deer. I often find it hard to remain silent when ever a self appointed expert gos on a soap box tirade about how crummy US made factory rifles, and factory rifles in general are, and have degraded into nothing more than "tomato stakes"

Well if US made rifles are that bad then I guess I'm truly blessed as mine shoot better than I ever hoped for, with reloads that is. As a matter of fact none of my rifles has ever had factory ammunition shot out of them.

The best story about this i like to tell happened to me almost 8 years ago. I was at my favorite range with my M700 in .338wm as well as my 116SF in 7mmstw, and my M77 in .300wm, and my 6.5x55 Swede. I was setting up to shoot the .338 first, when the pleasant fellow to my right sparked up a conversation with me. He said he was going to by a M700 in a varmint gun variant, but after thinking about it decided to go semi-custom as factory rifles just were not in his opinion, capable of 100yrd MOA accuracy, let alone the long range accuracy he wished for his varmint rifle. I'm sorry but I do not recall who he said had made his rifle. I do remember he had a 36x Leupold on top of it though, and a M700 action was used to make it.

After I shot my favorite most accurate reloads into nice tight sub MOA 3-shot groups again and again, he took notice. He on the other hand could not get a group smaller than 1.5" and some a little larger. After he looked his rifle over and could not locate any problems with loose screws he asked me to shoot his rifle to check it for any possible scope related problems.

I have to tell you I remember it as a great feeling rifle and at 36x the target looked like it was at the end of the barrel compared to mine set at 12x. After I got use to the trigger I banged out one of the smallest five shot groups I have ever fired. I don't recall the actual measured size, but I covered it with the nickle I keep in my pocket for scope adjustments.

He asked me what I felt he was doing wrong and what was it I was doing right. I told him that I had read allot of books on what the bench rest crowd used for shooting form and I modified it to shoot lighter harder recoiling rifles designed for hunting. I also invested in a decent front rest and rear bag, where as he had ( I guessed) a couple of $1000 invested in his rifle and scope, only to be shooting off a cheap home made wooden rest, with no rear bag. I showed him what I knew and let him shoot off my rest and he was shooting great groups that day.

I saw him a few years later and asked how his rifle and he were getting along. He replied he no longer was into varmint rifles or bolt actions that much any more and had switched over to civilian legal military rifles. And quite high $$$ ones at that judging from the ones he had with him. One was the latest from H&K in 5.56 NATO where the entire barrel, action trigger assembly and so on is housed in 100% synthetic material with a Night force Mil dot scope on top. I asked if he had a daughter of legal age to Mary, but he replied no. Funny thing though, he could not shoot that rifle all that well either.

Don't get me wrong custom guns are great for those who can afford them, but they buy virtue of their high price tags will not magically change a mediocre shot into a marksman. Only a whole lot of time and effort in the form of correct practice can do that. I feel this point as obvious as it is, is still lost on some.

[Kudzu]

Kinda Like Me Trying To Buy A "GOLF GAME" LOL

[wilmsmeyer]

Art,

You've just documented the biggest case of inaccuracy. Skill and form.

Yes a rifle must be capable but I would bet that most off the shelf rifles are much more capable then the average shooter that sights in the night before deer season by hitting a gallon jug and calling it good. Or the guy that tries to shoot MOA off the tailgate. Even these guys get deer and some of them regularly. OK shooting skills and great hunting/shot selection skills are a great combo. I know a few guys that are like this. Doesn't make them bad....they are just not interested in getting the most out of a rifle or gun.....or don't have the knowledge of shooting fundementals. Their guns shoot good enough and they kill just about anything they shoot at. $10,000 worth of customization will not shrink their groups......just like a $200,000 horse will not win me any races cause I'll hang on if I'm lucky and probably fall off.

However, the real marksmen out there know the fundamentals of shooting. Couple that with excellent shot selection and knowing your limits and it's almost hard to miss or wound. Guys like this that THEN customize their guns usually do so by understanding what's wrong or needing improvement and focusing the customization on what they are trying to "fix" functionally. Shooting any gun MOA requires a bunch of stars and planets to line up. Ability of the gunner is probably the biggest variable.

Many times there isn't much that's broke and such money is spent trying to "buy a golf game". A great analogy Dancoman!

JM 2 Cents.

[DannoBoone]

wilmsmeyer said:

Art,

You've just documented the biggest case of inaccuracy. Skill and form.

Yes a rifle must be capable but I would bet that most off the shelf rifles are much more capable then the average shooter that sights in the night before deer season by hitting a gallon jug and calling it good.

Shooting any gun MOA requires a bunch of stars and planets to line up. Ability of the gunner is probably the biggest variable.


JM 2 Cents.

You have all that right, yet there are tru "lemons" out there. Any
more %-wise now than 30 years ago? Probably not. I've had the
misfortune to get two of them the past few years, so I do at least
listen to another who complains. One was a Savage 110 in .22/250
caliber with a heavy barrel -- wasn't patient enough with it, and
traded it off. The other was a .25/06 Encore barrel.....this thing was
grouping 4.5" out of the box, while the .209x50 barrel was
grouping MOA on "my" better days (I have a problem with recoil
sensitivity). However, the stars and planets never did line up with
the Encore CF barrel 'til doing extensive measuring and a lot of
homework how to make it better. To make a long story short, it
now does 1/4" groups on "my" better days.

Ya can't ALWAYS discount the "shooter".