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Post by ozark on Feb 20, 2008 16:51:06 GMT -5
I have just received some No. 4s, 5s, and 6s, Hevi shot to try out this season. First I got my scales out and found that the Hevi shells are indeed heavier than the Winchester Supreme shells. But then I got to thinking: Both are loaded with 1 1/4 ounce of shot. If the expensive shot are heavier than the others then it would take fewer pellets to make 1 1/4 ounce. Doesn't this mean that I am getting fewer pellets per ounce with Hevi shot? I am wondering what the trade off will be. I was shooting No. 4s with the Supremes, maybe if I use 6s with the hevi I will gain some pellets plus have more distance and penetration. I will soon be patterning all three sizes and comparing them with the Winchester Supreme No.l 4s to determine if I have wasted my money on Hevi 13 shot. My shotgun is a 20 gage and I will be using the Undertaker choke designed for lead with the Supremes and the Undertaker choke designed for Hevi shot with the Hevi shot. Guesses on which gives the most pellets in a 9 Inch plate at 40 yards are welcome. I will be very pleased if any of the Hevi out performs the No. 4 Supreme in my gun.
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Post by deadeye on Feb 20, 2008 23:30:27 GMT -5
when it first came out i called galyans,they had only 3 boxes left in just one day of 1st shipment, reserved them & drove 60 miles one way,they were the worst patterning shells i ever put in my turkey guns so i called them hevi-sh*t instead,years later some else brought some out & they did decent in their gun with a modified choke,what im getting to i have found after many years of testing this whole turkey loads is a sham,my results out to 70 yds revealed some 2 3/4" & 3 " loaded with rabbit loads coupled with the right choke did just as well,just like any thing tuned componets working together differently in any given shotgun. in fact years ago while loading different hulls & wads etc,our finding was reduced powder charges & increased shot charges coupled with the right wad exceeded all. that project was lost & just shot rabbit shells usually #5 or #6. i hope i get the time someday to redevelop what is forgotten. my guess is they will be ok with regular chokes.
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Post by deadeye on Feb 20, 2008 23:36:36 GMT -5
one more thing, my results were based on pop cans since they are similar size to the neck & head,dont care about paper plates or 30" circles as i have seen no turkeys with kill zones that large ;D
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Post by IndianaHunter on Mar 3, 2008 11:20:20 GMT -5
I use them....killed my bird dead.....
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Post by ozark on Mar 3, 2008 13:50:33 GMT -5
Two days ago I test fired Hevi 4s, 5s and 6s and compared the patterns against my Supreme turkey loads. The 4 Hevi shot were not hardly as good as my old load. The 5s were slightly better and the 6s were not even close. I fired all from a lasered 40 yards onto a 9 Inch paper plate. Although the hevi shot may penetrate deeper (I did not test that part) I cannot see where they pattern one iota better. I used the H.S. Undertaker choke designed for lead with my old standby load and the Undertaker choke designed for Hevi shot with the hevi shot loads.
Although they obviously will kill turkey, I cannot see that they are worth the extra cost. In one case (6s) I would have lost a turkey at 40 yards. I will do further testing but I have seen enough to convince me that in my shotgun Winchester Supreme No. 4s or Remington Nitro Mag. No. 4s are equal to the Hevi No. 4s all using 1 1/4 Oz. of shot. I use a Mossberg 500 20 ga. that is scoped and patterened so the center of the shot groups on the crosshairs. Mine is a good 40 yard gun but I believe that is the maximum effective sure kill range. That is good enough for me. I just wanted to find out for myself if Hevi shot were better. I will use the 6s for crows or other pests and the others I can use as adaquate Turkey loads.
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Post by ma on Mar 4, 2008 8:12:05 GMT -5
Two days ago I test fired Hevi 4s, 5s and 6s and compared the patterns against my Supreme turkey loads. The 4 Hevi shot were not hardly as good as my old load. The 5s were slightly better and the 6s were not even close. I fired all from a lasered 40 yards onto a 9 Inch paper plate. Although the hevi shot may penetrate deeper (I did not test that part) I cannot see where they pattern one iota better. I used the H.S. Undertaker choke designed for lead with my old standby load and the Undertaker choke designed for Hevi shot with the hevi shot loads. Although they obviously will kill turkey, I cannot see that they are worth the extra cost. In one case (6s) I would have lost a turkey at 40 yards. I will do further testing but I have seen enough to convince me that in my shotgun Winchester Supreme No. 4s or Remington Nitro Mag. No. 4s are equal to the Hevi No. 4s all using 1 1/4 Oz. of shot. I use a Mossberg 500 20 ga. that is scoped and patterened so the center of the shot groups on the crosshairs. Mine is a good 40 yard gun but I believe that is the maximum effective sure kill range. That is good enough for me. I just wanted to find out for myself if Hevi shot were better. I will use the 6s for crows or other pests and the others I can use as adaquate Turkey loads. Same as I had experienced with the straight Hevi Shot and Undertaker chokes. "TIL I went to Nitro Ammunition, that is a whole nother story!!  ;D |
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Post by whyohe on Mar 4, 2008 17:11:30 GMT -5
Ozark, i use heavy shot and it works good for me. i havent patterend it yet with my newer shotgun. but i think i will now. the one turky i got with it was at 40 yards and went down right there.
now IMO and IMO only yes you are gettting less pellets in 1 1/4 oz of shot compaired to reg lead. BUT each pellet is heavier and denser so each pellet should carry more energy and longer than lead. and thus giving you more hitting power and penatration and (if it patterns good in your gun) longer shots.
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Post by redpep on Mar 5, 2008 8:19:35 GMT -5
Osark- Did you use a large clean backer sheet to put your pie plates on? Is there a chance that the pattern density might have been located off to the side of your plate?
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Post by goldwinginggunner on Mar 27, 2008 13:00:47 GMT -5
I have found that Bismuth does better than heavy or steel for turkey. It has a great pattern with a standard full choke. I am confident out to forty yards with Bismuth loads. If I had a pick when legal I would choose lead but I am very happy with the 1 5/8 oz bismuth. ( more shot weight - More pellets)
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Post by ozark on Apr 7, 2008 17:51:36 GMT -5
Today I compared the best of the hevi 13 shot against my load selected two years ago and used to take a gobbler at 40 yards. If I can get the pictures posted the targets will tell the story better than I can. In fact, I have wasted close to $100 bucks because I hoped that the Hevi 13 shot might be better.  |
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Post by ozark on Apr 7, 2008 17:57:37 GMT -5
After adding the picture I couldn't see any way to type more. My gun is a 20 ga. Mossberg 500. I just may have a fifty yard 20 gage turkey gun but I will limit my distance to 40 yards and shoot with confidence. I will toss the expensive world record holding Hevi shot. Got three boxes, 4s 5s and 6s, none compare close to the Win supreme 3' 1 1/4 Oz. Live and learn even if it is costly. Ben
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Post by whyohe on Apr 8, 2008 14:54:14 GMT -5
sorry you had to spend that kind of money. but its better to know what your gun will shoot effectively. have yoiu tried differant chokes? if you cant get rid of the shells maybe do a little more experimenting with them.
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Post by ozark on Apr 8, 2008 16:02:33 GMT -5
Yes, with the Hevi shot I bought the Undertaker choke that is designed for Hevi shot. Yes, I can have some fun experimenting with the Hevi shot left. I started off knowing that the load I had discovered was excellent but didn't want to shoot Hevi shot through my proven choke with the Win. Supreme. I can live with the expense and will do some experimenting with the shells containing Hevi shot I have left. A couple years ago My son and a Nephew were shooting 12 ga. against my 20 and the 20 won out for pellets in a 9 inch plate at 30 yards. I believe the pattern my 20 is shooting may well be better than usually found. It is all in fun anyway because they sell good tasting butterball turkey in the stores. I would try a coyote with the 20 and my turkey load at 30 yards. He might trot off but I would blast one at it. Ben
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Post by whyohe on Apr 11, 2008 4:45:22 GMT -5
OK i went yesterday to compare my patterns between heavy shot and federal premiums. sorry no pics i for got camera. well believe it or not the heavy shot shot quite well with a nice pattern especially at 25 yards. it just shoots alittle to the left for me. i was using a full choke. the federals where not bad at 25 yards but was pretty wide at 40. so i went to my local gun store and we had a good discussion. and i decided to look at some different shells and i also bought a extra full turkey choke. i know i cant use it for heavy shot but if i can get some regular lead shot to shoot good it will be nice cause it is so much cheaper. i bought some turkey targets so if i for get camera i can take pick of the targets and post.
i guess i should specify that the federals where the old style premiums in the gold and blue box. i went and bought the federal premiums that have the "control wad" in the reddish and black box. i usually shoot #4 shot but it looks like i grabbed 3" 1 3/4 oz of #5 by accident. i also bought winchester supremes 3" 2oz of #4 shot. he also recommends me try some PMC 3" 2 oz of #4 shot. he said it shot really good out of his gun and for the price its worth the try at 6 bucks a box.
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Post by ozark on Apr 11, 2008 7:18:45 GMT -5
I think the big lessons to learn is 1. There is often a great difference in how shot pattern in a particular gun/choke combination. 2. It is well worth the time and expense to shoot several different brands and shot sizes to determine which shoots best in the gun you are going to use. I have never been much of a shotgunner and was amazed to discover so much difference between shot and shells used. Like many other people I just grabbed a box of sixes, 4s, or whatever and hit the woods. Whyohe, it is my guess that one of the types you bought will sell itself to you. Ben
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Post by ozark on Apr 11, 2008 12:21:06 GMT -5
Very good. What size is the circle and is that a 12 ga.? Sure looks like a killer pattern.
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Post by deadeye on Apr 11, 2008 20:44:17 GMT -5
thats a great pattern whether its 6" or 60" circle,where can one obtain this "nitro" ammunition?  ???please, savagehunter-please post one @ 50 & 60yds if you will! |
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Post by ma on Apr 13, 2008 19:43:14 GMT -5
Very good. What size is the circle and is that a 12 ga.? Sure looks like a killer pattern. Circle diameter is 10" and was shot at a measured 40yds from a clean bore. Gun is a 3" Browning Gold 12ga. Choke used on this pattern was a Rhino, with the Rhino pellet counts average over 250. I now am shooting the Jellyhead and still get pellet counts over 200 average. Rhino can cost up to $175 so it makes the $45 Jellyhead quite appealing. When I pattern a turkey gun I swab the bore with solvent followed by a dry patch every shot. If I shoot a turkey I swab as again as soon as feasible. Nitro Ammunitions website shows different loads and chokes recommended for about any turkey gun made today, they even have a 2 3/4" load that is unbelievable. I just follow their suggestions and it has always shot awesome. Take a piece of barn tin to 40yds and shoot it with lead or copper coated lead, note the DENTS. Then try the 4x5x7 hevi shot and even the #7's will go right thru. Power level is really awesome. Can save a little money by using the Economy load that is lead on the 4's&5's but still has Hevi Shot 7's. The 7's is the whole key to this load. Dang near the same weight has lead #5's so penetration and feather cutting is awesome. Look here: www.nitrocompany.com/ammunition.htm |
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Post by deadeye on Apr 13, 2008 22:09:38 GMT -5
thx so much,i will explore!!
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Post by thelefthand on Apr 15, 2008 17:00:06 GMT -5
I went through this excercise several years ago with my Moss 20ga. I did find that the Hevi Shot patterned best for me, but the pattern was still big enough that 35 yds was as far as I felt comfortable.
Then I bought an 835 a couple years ago and did the same thing with it. I tried a few types of lead (Rem, and Win I believe), as well as Winchesters tungston load (I forget the name) and Hevi 13. The Hevi 13 did perform noticibly better for me, but nothing like the Nitro/Rhino combination above. I tried all the shells out of the Mossberg factory turkey choke, a Mad Max ported choke, and another Mad Max choke that Cabela's had on sale at the time. If memory serves, out of a clean barrel I was getting 125 #4 pellets in a 13 inch circle at 40 yards out of the factory turkey choke, and the unported Mad Max. I stuck with the Mad Max because it had a slightly tighter constriction and seemed to pattern the DEAD COYOTE loads, as well as some of the others a little better than the factory choke.
All told, I spent $200 on the gun, $100 on chokes, and another $100 on ammo to test. I wish knowledge wasn't so expensive.
Mark
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;D
