buffered 12 gauge reload

[topcat]

hello, I am looking to use your experience to shorten my research.I am looking for a great long range buffered lead reload in12gauge .Some of you must have used it before steel came out.Thanking you Regards topcat

[bubba]

I have!

I used win 2 3/4 AA hulls, WAA12R wad, light load of win 571 powder and plastic shavings bought from precision reloading out east. The load was 1.5 oz at 1100fps, it shot incredibly tight loads, I used #4's for ducks back when it was legal. 100% pattern @ 40 yards !

I used an electric razor sideburn cutters to "shake" the plastic in the shot, i kept adding it until it was full as well. I will look to see if I can find the exact load of Win 571 powder.

-bubba

[topcat]

Thanks Bubba, The loads I have used and were impressed with are factory loads Winchester xx magnums in 2 3/4 12gauge.These are supposed to be 1260 fps and I would have wondered if 1100 fps was enough but your experience has opened my eyes to the possibilities.I will look in my books for loads Topcat

[bubba]

I honestly think that the slower you start out the load, the less that the pellets have to be beat against each other.

This USE to be a published winchester load..........

I see that win 571 is not produced any more, HS-7 is an excat replacement per hodgdon website.

It may be a week ot two before I can get to my buddy that I made those with, I am hoping that he still has the booklet with the recipe in it from winchester.

you might look around for an OLD winchester reloading manual ( the little free paper ones ) about 1990 ish time frame I would think !

[bubba]

I should also add that I wanted more speed and found that what I was doing at higher speeds just did not work for me. The patterns went by-by ( 1.25 oz @ 1300 ).

The patterns @ 75-80 yards were enough with 1.5oz #4's to pattern wise kill a duck, it was however running out of energy at that distance. we took computer paper and covered sheets of plywood and shot it at respective ranges. Back then we had fixed choked barrels, dont be scared to try different chokes, we had different success with different chokes.


good luck !

-bubba

[Blue-Dot-37.5]

I beleive Tom Roster came out with a buffered load reloading book. In any case, call Ballistic Products. They are in Minn., I believe.

Now, IF you can find the wads, here's a recipe for ya. You can't shoot this load in a semi-auto 'cause the action will start to open before the paper hull "releases" from the chamber wall and you most likely will rip the brass from the paper. It works just fine in a pump or O/U.

The load IS safe, I had the load pressure tested. You have to follow the load exactly, with only 1 substitution - you can change wads to the Federal RP12's. This load is listed in the Alliant Reloading book, although without the buffer. In the book, they list the load with RP12's, Fed 209A's and 1 3/8 oz shot.

A couple of caveats:
If you change the buffer, the pressure will skyrocket. Just by changing to MEC buffer bumped the pressure over 2,000 psi in this load. If you use the Fed 209A Primer, the FPS will increase 100 fps over the CCI 209M primers, but the pressure will increase by 1,000 psi, and put you over SAMMI maximum. You CANNOT load this in the Federal Gold Medal Plastic hull. You MUST use the Federal Gold Medal Paper hull, preferably once fired. You will lose about 75 fps if you use twice fired hulls.

Another warning, this load isn't for someone who can't take recoil.

Here it is:

Federal Gold Medal Paper hull - 2 3/4"
CCI 209M Primer
Activ T-42 Wad (the green one for 1 3/8 to 1 1/2 oz loads)
1 5/16 oz. Premium High Antimony Shot (I like #6's) Preferrably "Tower" or "West Coast" shot. The rounder the better.
15 to 17 grains of Ballistic Products Spherical Buffer vibrated down so you just barely start to see pellets peeking thru the buffer
37.5 gr. Blue-Dot (hence the name! ;D)
1380 fps
11,500 psi.

I regularly shot between 250 and 500 of these a day when I was playing the "games". This WILL break clay birds at over 100 Yds! And take pheasants past 60 Yds.

You can try #5s' and #4's, but none of my guns liked them.....

If you want to smoke some clay targets @ 60 Yds, load #7's, not #7 1/2's!

We played a "Annie Oakly or Down the Line" game where we stood @ 60 Yds behind the trap house THEN called pull. The trap was set up for international trap speeds, and it was a wobble trap. Talk about FUN!!!! ;D ;D

Just in case you were wondering, in my Browning Citori (factory backbored) with Briley X2 extended choke in .032" constriction, this load with #6s' would pattern 80% @ [glow=red,2,300]60[/glow] yds.

Blue-Dot-37.5

[topcat]

Blue Dot 37.5 Thanks for your suggestions.I have got Tom Rosters buffered lead manual which is good but as with your load some of the compnents are not available locallyas Iam in Australia.I have plenty of Winchester compnents,Cheddite cases,Fiocchi 616 primers,Remington sts primers and sts cases ( no wads). Blue Dot powder is now being imported . I have personally imported some psb buffer and some sts/mg42 wads(same as tuwgl12) which was not cheap and took nearly six months by economy post.The gun I am shooting is a factory backbored Miroku (same as Browning).I have one possible load but this is not a lot of options,I was hoping for a load with easily available components or a well proven load that I only had to personally import wads (powder or primed cases are impossible). Thanks for yor help and sharing your load with me. Topcat

[Blue-Dot-37.5]

topcat:

Here I thought you were in the states! (U.S.A. that is).

As a general rule of thumb, straight walled cases will have slightly less pressure than tapered cases, if the same amount of powder that you use in a tapered case is used in the straight walled case. I don't know what type of cases the Cheddites are.

What weight payload at what velocity are you looking for? (shot size too.....)

Blue-Dot-37.5

[topcat]

Blue-Dot-37.5 The Cheddite cases are the European straight walled cases with the stars on the base (like Rios).I was originially trying to duplicate the 12gauge 2 3/4 1nch XX Winchester load (1 1/2 oz buffered lead #2 @1260) but Bubba in an earlier reply said he has got great long range patterns @1100 fps so now any proven load from 1100 to 1260 fps in 1 1/2 oz or even 1 3/8 oz buffered this is in a 2 3/4 inch case Topcat

[Blue-Dot-37.5]

topcat:

Sorry, I can't help with the Cheddites. The only load data that I could find is for 1 to 1 1/8 oz of shot.....

Another possible option would be to purchase some Activ all plastic 12 ga hulls, possibly on e-bay. I had a load for the MG-42 wads, 1 1/2 oz of shot w/buffer that worked pretty good, but not as well as the load that I listed above. Ballistic Products has the load in one of their books. If you decide to go that route, I can dig up the load. Can you purchase/have shipped unprimed hulls without too much of a problem?

FWIW, I wouldn't use the Fiocchi Primers in anything that you might want to use the Remington STS primers in later. The Fiocchi primers change the primer pocket just enough so the Remington/Winchester/CCI primers have a tendacy to fall out.....


Blue-Dot-37.5

[topcat]

Blue-Dot-37.5 Thank you for your help. I will try what I have and see what happens. Topcat

[grousehunter]

Hello Guys, being that your talking about buffered loads I've got a question for you upland guys. I'm a hardcore grouse hunter from the mountains of North Carolina and north Ga. and it takes a pretty good load to knock down some of these late season birds around here and I like the fast load around 1350fps plus but I'm not crazy about the heavy 1 1/4 shot loads, as I have a benelli ultra lite and them 1 1/4 oz loads kick like a mule. I've been thinking about getting a reloader myself so I can get the load I think would be a killer grouse load. Tell me if this load is possible? 1 oz or maybe 1 1/8 oz load of buffered copper plated #6's with a speed around 1350 or 1400 fps? If someone will tell me this is possible and give a recipe including components names, I'll order or go buy a reloader and all the stuff that it takes to load this shell. (12 ga.)