All around rifle cartridge

[ozark]

Where I live in North Central Arkansas there is a variety of game and varmints. I have owned and taken these animals with a wide variety of rifles ranging from the 300 Win. down through the calibers to the .17 HMR and the Pellet rifle. Several rifles I have loved and been impressed with. The 25-06, 270, 22-250, 223, 222, .22 RF Mag. I have loved most of these rifles and most have served me well. Because of the coyote laws here a rifle of 25 Cal. or smaller is needed at times. I need a rifle that I feel confident taking whitetail deer or bear but still able to reach out there and take a coyote. I settled on a .243 Winchester in a Savage with the accu-trigger several years ago as my all around rifle. I took two crows out of three shots at 170 lasered yards. Have taken two deer that was down instantaly and one that had been run by dogs that ran close to 100 yards before collapseing. As far as being accurate it was fine out of the box and I have not changed it. Interesting to me is why the Remington 6MM didn't get as popular as the Winchester .243 since they are both 6MM. I guess there is much to be said for a name getting popular. I have killed whitetail deer with most of the rifles mentioned above but the .243 gets the job done as well as any. I know there are a lot of personal preferences in rifles but can anyone be legit with criticizing the .243? Ozark

[SW]

Rem made a mistake of introducing the Rem 244 with 12 twist while the 243 had 10 twist. The Win stabilized bullets thru 100gs while the Rem only stabilized bullets thru 85-90 and it quickly fell from favor - never had favor. The longer neck of the Rem resulted in nearly twice the throat longivity, thus nearly twice the barrel live while getting appx 100'/sec faster. The 6 MM Rem, (a 244 Rem with 10 twist) is IMO a better cartridge than the 243 but they just lost out. The reloading items greatly favor the 243(cases available/dies,etc) . Still some people are using the 6MM rem and I think wisely so. The longer neck of the 6 MM Rem didn't lend itself to semi-auto weapons either. If a deer isn't included in the tgt choices but just varmints, the 204 Ruger seems to have it all. The cartridge selection is absolutely superb - long neck, adequate powder capacity, nice caliber, etc. Does all a 223 and 22-250 can do only better. I have a 22-250 AK IMP and a 223 with all loading dies/cases, etc. If I didn't I'd only have a 204 Ruger.

[whyohe]

if your talking about just varmint i do believe there are better choices. id agree with SW that the 204 ruger looks like a good cartridge for that but am only going on the stats. but if you are looking for a kind of universal rifle the 243 is a good choice. it has a variety of different bullet available for different game. it has low recoil and is a fairly flat shooter,depending on bullet and load. i don't think id particularly chose it for bear or elk or moose, BUT can it be done? sure! my dad shot a few deer with his.

[CraigF]

Personally, I think that the 243 is one of the best all around callibers. The reasons are, small enough for varmints, large enough for medium game like deer. Also, there is tons of commercial ammo that you can find at Wally World and almost limitless reloading options. The recoil is light enough that it is very easy to learn on.

With deer taken out of the question, I realy like a 223 in a 7" twist. 77, 80, and 90 grain bullets can do a lot of damage on anything, and take down deer quite well. Also, range and accuracy are great.

[ozark]

Good information SW. I had never checked and since they were both 6MM just assumed (nearly always a mistake) they were the same. Thanks for pointing out the difference. Ben

[mike3132]

Ben,

I like the 243 Win and cant criticize it at all but for more "ump" take a look at the .257 Roberts. mike

[CORVAIR]

Ozark,

Many have found favor in the 243 for a variety of applications, deer, varmits etc..,. An excellant all-around cartridge w/bullet that tends to buck the wind well at longer ranges.

I did note though that the 22-243 Middlestead had a high following for those that hunt Coyotes for pelts. Apparently little if any pelt damage and is also an extreme range cartridge.
Problem with the Middllestead though is barrel life due to the extreme velocity(up to 5000 fps).

You can read more about this cartridge over on the Savage Shooters website under varmit hunting.

[wilmsmeyer]

Hard to argue with a .243 for any game east of the Mississippi and south of Hudson Bay.

55 gr NBT's at 4050 for yotes and chucks and all kinds of good big game bullets 85-100 grains. Partitions, coppers, scirroco's....

I love mine! Too bad we can't use rifles for deer here. Well.....maybe it's good.......I'd hate to back shelf the Savage ML until ML season. ;D

[SW]

:)My Kevin Rayhill sporterized Sav Model 10 223(9 twist std) is extremely accurate but nearing being shot-out. I plan to replace the barrel with an 8 twist to be able to shoot 40-80g bullets. Believe it or not, the 75 A-Max is an excellent deer bullet. The 60 Partition also works well but isn't nearly as accurate. Usage of lower powered cartridges limits the shooter to taking only selected shots such as boiler room and, I guess, head shots. I've killed a # of deer with the 223 and never had one go even 100 yds. The 243/95NBT/BST seems highly adequate IMO. If I had no gun and were going to have only 1 for everything, it would likely be a 243 or 6 MM Rem with a 8 or 9 twist(for extreme loading flexibility) if I were rebarreling or the std 10 twist if getting factory barrel. If I were to have 2 rifles, I'd have a Rem 710 in 270(The Murray of rifles - a disposable rifle) and a CZ/Kimber/Cooper/Sav Ruger 204 - one for big things and one for little things. I've set up 3 Rem 710s for people(my son has one) and they all will group appx 1/2" 100 yd 3 shot groups with Win Sup 130g BSTs. The look and feel cheap but really shoot.

[bubba]

steve

I shot the partitions (60gr) out of a rock river ar-15 (16in) and it would shoot 1/4 to 1/3 inch all day long............. with surplus (ball) powder. If they were cheaper, it would be a good varmint round

-bubba

[CraigF]

SW, How did the 223 Amax expand and hold up? Mine shoots 80 grains really well. Do you think that they would work on coyotes?

[CORVAIR]

Craig, not trying to hi-jack your question to SW, but the 223 will work very well on Coyotes w/ranges out to 300 yards. If you want to save the pelts, I would select a bullet with less explosive expansion. If pelts are not saved, have at it w/any load.

Past 300 yards and out to 400 or so, a Ruger 204, 22-250, 220 Swift. Past 400, I would opt for the 22-243 Middlestead. Speed of bullet arrival is critical for extreme range kills on the wiley Coyote.

[SW]

Jul 9, 2008 2:04:59 GMT -5 CraigF said:

SW, How did the 223 Amax expand and hold up? Mine shoots 80 grains really well. Do you think that they would work on coyotes?

Like a classic big game bullet(75g A-Max). It likely wouldn't expand much on a coyote at 223 velocities as it doesn't seem to expand much at 22-250AK IMP velocities.

[CraigF]

SW, Thanks, that is great news! Mine loves 80 grain Amax bullets. Any suggestions for heavy coyote bullets? I need to stay at 70 grains or higher with my twist rate.

[ozark]

My .243 is very accurate and I am excited about getting some 55 Grain reloads to try. I have only shot the 95 and 100 grain factory loads. My barrel is 20 inches or less from the Savage factory and I am curious as to what to expect. I am curious to find out the difference in point of impact and if I will have to re-zero between varmint shooting and deer hunting. Ben

[SW]

Jul 9, 2008 12:31:35 GMT -5 CraigF said:

SW, I need to stay at 70 grains or higher with my twist rate.

Respectfully, I think you are mistaken. Just today I sighted in my 22-250AK IMP for a LEGAL BLACK PANTHER hunt here in NE AR. 3 farmers got a deprevation permit for me to hunt this many times sighted cat(s). Incidentally, the SSS constructed, 8 - twist got the following groups today : 80g Sierra Match Kings, 39.0 H-4350, 0.008" off lands, Norma cases, BR-2s benchrest prepped cases: 100 yds - 1 shot 1 1.5" hi, 200 yds 0.4" gp(3-shot) 2" hi, 300 yds 0.7" gp 1.4" low. 75 A-Maxs were 200 yds 0.5"gp, 3.4" hi, and 300 yds 0.8" .4" low. Are those good groups or not!! Now here's the point: 40 NBTs, though not shot today, usually are 1" or less at 300yds and leave the bore at 4425'/sec. Fast twist barrels will shoot small bullets very well also. Today I also sighted in my Sav based 223 with over 6000 shots thru it and it is now a 24" barreled sporter. I'm shooting 40 NBTs(9" twist) with 28.0g Tac or 30.3g BLC-2(hot loads) and got 1.1" 200yd gps and 2.4" 300 yd gps.
You CAN shoot light bullets every bit as well as the slower twists and mostly better. Only with match bullets and with temp compensated loading can a 14-15 twist 223 out do a 7-9 twist 223. I will rebarrel with an 8 twist and still primarily shoot 40 NBTs. I do deer hunt with 75 AMaxs in the 22-250, and will with the 223 when I get a 8 twist. Hope this helps.